Rear end still sagging, even after new leaf springs? - YotaTech Forums



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Rear end still sagging, even after new leaf springs?

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Old 06-18-2017, 02:53 PM   #1
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Rear end still sagging, even after new leaf springs?

Hiya! First time poster, long time lurker. I'm relatively new to wrenching on my truck (1995 pickup, 22re, 4WD ext cab). I bought it 13 years about when I was 16, moved away and it sat for a few years and now am reunited with it. So far I've replaced the oil pump, water pump, timing chain, timing chain guide, cover, tie-rods, pitman and idler arm, shocks and leaf springs. All with the help of searching Yotatech. Up until now, I haven't had to post do to the plethora of knowledge but I'm feeling stuck here.

My question pertains to the last replacement on my list; the leaf springs.

I was getting sag in the rear end, and it was also leaning to the passenger rear side. So I decided to replace the leaf springs, shackles and all the hardware. I bought stock size springs from SD Truck Spring (These ones -> http://www.truckspring.com/products/...)__90-135.aspx ). Had the pleasure of cutting the old ones out because they were so rusted in place. Threw on the new ones and the truck still seems to sag. I'm at a loss on why its not only sagging, but also still leaning?

So far, I'm decent at wrenching, but not 100% at identifying the problem (I've been working and wrenching on motorcycles for the past 10 years though). What are possible problems or possible solutions that you forsee? Should I have purchased extended shackles? An add a leaf kit? But really, with everything back to stock, I feel like it shouldn't be an issue? Could this possibly mean my frames bent (it seems straight and hasn't been in an accident as far as I know).

Anything is helpful and appreciated! Thanks.

Tim
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:39 PM   #2
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I ordered an add-a-leaf kit just to give it a shot! Even though with new springs, it shouldn't be an issue.

Last edited by mcswny; 06-18-2017 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:28 AM   #3
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Pics would definitely help. The lean might be due to the front torsion bars not being evenly adjusted. As for the sag, I really don't know. Never heard of that spring company before, so who knows if those are actually correct factory length replacements. Does your truck have a lift on the front? Any kind of bracket lift or ball joint spacers?
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:39 AM   #4
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Pics would definitely help. The lean might be due to the front torsion bars not being evenly adjusted. As for the sag, I really don't know. Never heard of that spring company before, so who knows if those are actually correct factory length replacements. Does your truck have a lift on the front? Any kind of bracket lift or ball joint spacers?

Ok cool, I'll take some pictures tonight.

If I adjust the torsion bars, I HAVE to get an alignment right?

I got the OEM number from Toyota and ran it against their numbers and everything lined up so they theoretically should be the correct size.

No lift on the front. It used to have a body lift that I took off, but nothing else.

Thanks!
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:18 PM   #5
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Pics would definitely help. The lean might be due to the front torsion bars not being evenly adjusted. As for the sag, I really don't know. Never heard of that spring company before, so who knows if those are actually correct factory length replacements. Does your truck have a lift on the front? Any kind of bracket lift or ball joint spacers?
Question: Would unevenly adjusted torsion bars in the front affect lean in the back?
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:21 PM   #6
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To a certain extent, yes. It's a fairly rigid frame, so imagine when one of the front corners drops lower than the other, the opposite back corner will raise slightly.

I think we really need pictures to understand what this "lean" and "sag" look like.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:52 PM   #7
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To a certain extent, yes. It's a fairly rigid frame, so imagine when one of the front corners drops lower than the other, the opposite back corner will raise slightly.

I think we really need pictures to understand what this "lean" and "sag" look like.

Ok, here are some photos!

Also, measurements from the top lip of the rim to the fender for both sides, front and back
Passenger
Back 11"
Front 13.25"

Driver
Back 11.75"
Front 14.5"

There USED to be a body lift on the truck, which means the PO could have screwed with the torsion bars?

Keep in mind these are brand new leaf springs and shackles.



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Old 06-20-2017, 04:35 AM   #8
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Well for certain you can see that your front driver and pass sides are not even, so that would make it look a bit like it is leaning. And the I see the rake you are talking about, front of truck is higher than rear. I'd lower the front a bit if it were me, and of course even up the right and left sides. All you have to do is turn the adjuster bolts, I believe they are 19mm.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:33 AM   #9
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Well for certain you can see that your front driver and pass sides are not even, so that would make it look a bit like it is leaning. And the I see the rake you are talking about, front of truck is higher than rear. I'd lower the front a bit if it were me, and of course even up the right and left sides. All you have to do is turn the adjuster bolts, I believe they are 19mm.
Great, thank you!

Do I need to get an alignment asap after adjusting the torsion bars? I'm leaving on Thursday for a ~1,000 mile trip. Trying to figure out if I want to wait till after.
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Old 06-23-2017, 02:34 PM   #10
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Can I just add some advice to your situation? Do not just simply start adjusting your front torsion bar bolts. The truck first needs to be on a completely level surface. Level side to side and front to rear. Each spring will interact with each other at all four corners, and it is really easy to adjust the front end incorrectly. You need to remove the rear leaf springs from the equation altogether. To do this, you must lift the rear axle off the ground from the center, making the front end self leveling with three points of contact. Based on your numbers, if the back driver's side is higher, and the front passenger side is lower, it seems fixable. The front passenger side (provided you measured on level ground) is below stock height.

1. Park the vehicle on a level surface.
2. Jack the rear end by the center of the axle until the tires are only slightly off the ground.
3. Measure from the top center of the rim/wheel to the fender lip on the FRONT fenders. (Not from the ground. Top of wheel to fender lip removes tire inflation differences, and floor variations.)
4. Record difference between fender wells.
5. Make torsion bolt adjustment. A full rotation is usually in the realm of 1/8th of an inch.
6. Put vehicle rear back on the ground and roll vehicle forward and backwards a few feet to to allow suspension to relax and walk wheels apart (if lowering) or bring wheels together (if raising).
7. Repeat steps 1 through 5.

Soak those torsion bar adjustment bolts really good in PB Blaster the day before you start.

Once the front end is level with this method (while the rear is lifted), put the truck down on the ground. Any new variance in height in the front will be due to the rear springs. It is your call if you want to balance the truck with further front end adjustment while on the ground, or hunt for the rear end variance.

I wish I had caught this post before you purchased your replacement springs. I would have told you to just add a long leaf to the pack. You are not the first to experience this with new leaf packs.

Also, you forgot the most important picture: one from the front that shows the control arms. Be patient, take your time, you got this!

Last edited by 89fourrunner; 06-23-2017 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:37 AM   #11
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Can I just add some advice to your situation? Do not just simply start adjusting your front torsion bar bolts. The truck first needs to be on a completely level surface. Level side to side and front to rear. Each spring will interact with each other at all four corners, and it is really easy to adjust the front end incorrectly. You need to remove the rear leaf springs from the equation altogether. To do this, you must lift the rear axle off the ground from the center, making the front end self leveling with three points of contact. Based on your numbers, if the back driver's side is higher, and the front passenger side is lower, it seems fixable. The front passenger side (provided you measured on level ground) is below stock height.

1. Park the vehicle on a level surface.
2. Jack the rear end by the center of the axle until the tires are only slightly off the ground.
3. Measure from the top center of the rim/wheel to the fender lip on the FRONT fenders. (Not from the ground. Top of wheel to fender lip removes tire inflation differences, and floor variations.)
4. Record difference between fender wells.
5. Make torsion bolt adjustment. A full rotation is usually in the realm of 1/8th of an inch.
6. Put vehicle rear back on the ground and roll vehicle forward and backwards a few feet to to allow suspension to relax and walk wheels apart (if lowering) or bring wheels together (if raising).
7. Repeat steps 1 through 5.

Soak those torsion bar adjustment bolts really good in PB Blaster the day before you start.

Once the front end is level with this method (while the rear is lifted), put the truck down on the ground. Any new variance in height in the front will be due to the rear springs. It is your call if you want to balance the truck with further front end adjustment while on the ground, or hunt for the rear end variance.

I wish I had caught this post before you purchased your replacement springs. I would have told you to just add a long leaf to the pack. You are not the first to experience this with new leaf packs.

Also, you forgot the most important picture: one from the front that shows the control arms. Be patient, take your time, you got this!
Thank you so much for this! This is really, really helpful.

So after I bought my new springs, I ended up putting a leaf kit in the new springs. I figured since I throw my two motorcycles in the bed, it wasnt a bad decision.

Once I sit down to tackle to the leveling, I'll update!
Thanks, again.
Tim
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Old 07-03-2017, 08:31 AM   #12
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My truck did that with the OE springs. I always figured it was because of the weight of the fuel tank and fuel. Anyway, all that went away when I installed Ironman 1.5" lift springs from Australia.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...rrived-245272/

Also, I've found when I took my swaybar off, the truck tended to lean more. Is yours still installed?
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