ovrrdrive

Ok... I've read some old threads and seen several people mention a problem like this but no solutions.

My truck since it was brand new has pinged with anything less than premium unleaded, so I gave in a long time ago and just ran premium in it all the time.

Now its on its third engine (don't ask ) and not only do I still have this problem it is gradually getting worse.

I recently did the timing chain job on it and everything went well but its almost like as the timing chain wears in its stretching or something and changing the time.

At the time of the job I set it to 8 degrees btdc and it was fine for a few weeks then it started mildly pinging so I went down to like 6. That was fine for a few weeks and it started again so I dropped to 4. Now its starting to do it again.

I can't keep dropping it down...

It's running good when it isn't pinging, but its starting to worry me a little.

I have seen several people around here running 87 and I think its time I got to the bottom of this. A bud of mine says you can alleviate this condition by richening up the mixture a little and going with a hotter plug or regapping them or something like that but I don't know where to start.

Currently I am running Bosch Platinum pregapped plugs ( I know ) and the dist cap and rotor are 12k old. The fuel filter should have been changed out at the last rebuild, but if not it probably has 50k on it.

I am getting a 2.25" to magnaflow to 2.5" exhaust put on tomorrow so if it is a lean condition it will probably get worse.

Should I just figure out and adjust the MAF to richen it up a little or does anyone have any other ideas?

trythis

Well first, get some NGK plugs, even the cheap ones.
Second, do you know if your TPS is working properly? Is it adjusted and does it stay that way? If your TPS came from the original engine, it probably needs replacing. You can't set your timing if it is bad.
Third, you havent mentioned vavle adjustments. Are you ure they are adjusted?
Fourth, mine pings a little if I am even half a quart low on oil. If I make sure it is full, I hear a lot less valve noise, almost none at all.

Spanky

from my experience, and from a buncha yotatech people backing this up.... get rid of the Bosch plugs! get some NGK's or Denso's and re-gap them so you know they are right.
Also from experience; think about getting a 2" exhaust. You need backpressure! A few months ago I got 2.25" pipes, new cat, new muffler, and it seems like it aint breathing right. i hope when i get a new header on it will help with the problem.
As to adjusting the AFM (not the MAF) I adjusted mine 2 teeth lean because I am at over 5000ft. here in utah. I so far have not noticed anything. I kinda think the AFM adjustment should be left alone. But I think I will keep playing with it till it works, or till I figure I wasted alot of time, and put it back to original.

ovrrdrive

You're also the second person to suggest ditching the Bosche's... I've run them since the truck had 20k on it, and also always had a pinging issue. I'll do the plugs this weekend.

I would have to say the TPS is original because I know for a fact that they used my old valve covers and a few other things too. I have never fooled with the TPS at all because I know it is a bitch to set back right when you screw it up so I have always left it alone. This is an expensive possibility so I will leave it until last..

Valves were adjusted to .008/.010 when I did the timing cover and I'm pretty confident they are spot on. The Crane cam suggested those numbers and the valves are more quiet now than they were when the truck had 4 miles on it upon delivery... I was actually thinking of double checking them though. I'll probably do that this weekend too. I wanted to give it a 500 mile post timing job oil change anyway.

Oil is right at the full mark. I put in a 5 quart jug when i did the oil a few hundred miles ago. It's still at the top and clean as a babies butt. Assuming he had a recent diaper change that is.


So, you're thinking A/F mixture will have no effect?

Should I consider adjusting it after the exhaust?

Thanks for the suggestions btw...

ovrrdrive

Done... I'll post back this weekend after i try that. I always thought I was doing myself a favor with them. Sheesh!

I was kind of set on the 2.25 to 2.5... I have a higher performance head on the truck with an aftermarket Crane stage 2 cam, SS O/S valves and heavier springs in it and was thinking it really needed to flow better. Plus, I have in my future a set of Thorley 2.25 headers too, and that would allow a standard size pipe to the muff.

The head really wasn't making that big of a difference yet, and I was counting on the exhaust to make me think I didn't waste my money on the head.

In hindsight, with the weather as hot as it's been (95-100F) with 80-100% humidity, the engine is probably as rich as its ever been right now. Still with the head and exhaust I have to wonder if a click or two richer wouldn't help it out.

I am also ditching the cat when they do the exhaust too. It has 205k on it and it is probably plugged up pretty well. Money is tight right now, but I will probably get a high flow cat when I do the header, even though they don't test or check down here.




And finally, are all of you guys really running 87 in your 22RE's?

That could pay for the plugs in a hurry if any of you are...

Spanky

well maybe you should get the 2.25" pipes.. i didnt know you had some mods in good 'ol 22r-e. when my engine dies, i am gonna have some performance parts in it for sure! and with a new header and the exhaust i have on now, it should really breath like a champ.
i really do not think u should go for anything more than 2.25" though.
As for the AFM mod... hell, it wont hurt to play around and see if you can fine tune it in after you get the exhaust in ( i have heard that people with the high humidity like you are pretty much equal to people with high altitude like me!) if i was you though, drive around for a few weeks so you can get some numbers on the new exhaust BEFORE you play around with the AFM. And when/if you do actually play with the AFM... please do a search on here about it and dont do what some of us here have done (me included) !!! when you read, you will know what i am talking about!

about your cat; you are gonna buy a cat twice? why not just buy one once? i know money is tight, but they really arent that much more.
or were you thinking of NOT running a cat at all till you can afford a performance cat? if you are thinking about running "no cat" you should do a search here and read up on it!!
as for the 87 goes, i adjusted my timing, and have to run a little higher octane. i think you should be fine with 87 or maybe one grade higher. anything more than that is a waste IMO.

ovrrdrive

I have always been one to measure twice and cut once... I'll not only search here but on 3 or 4 other forums as well before I mod something like that.

Thanks for the HU.

I'm going with no cat for now, then when I get around to it (honestly in no big hurry there ) I'll add a high flow cat. I've searched on this and know several people that have done it and it sounds ok to do. The only bad points on it are smelly exhaust and bye-bye ozone... My truck has one O2 before the cat so there will be no adverse effects over running a high flow cat.

I'm probably doing a SBC swap next year anyway if I keep the truck and don't upgrade, so when I do that I will have the cash available to do it right at that time.

I have never, ever been able to run anything less than 91 in this truck... Seems it may have had a problem when it was built that I never questioned.

whitetaco02

I am running 87 octane im my 88 4runner and it seems to be driving pretty good. I may go up to 89 and see if i see a difference.

are there any negatives on running without a cat? i have one but i am just curious. thanks

Spanky

ovrrdrive:
just do me a favor and read into "not running a cat" and as far as the AFM Mod goes... there are some good write ups on here about what to do and what not to do. you will see!! anyways good luck!

ovrrdrive

If there's a thread you have in mind, can you post a link to it?

The only threads I keep turning up have people in them who have done it and say it helped, and those that have not done it saying it is bad to do.

Like these:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...ht=running+cat
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...ht=running+cat


Those both leave me with the idea that it won't hurt anything, but may or may not help either. In my case with 205k on it, it has to help over running the old one.

Am I missing something?

Crap... I jacked my own thread.

Any other ideas to try this weekend for the original problem?

Spanky

ovrrdrive:
i dont have one in mind, but i know i read one here somewhere not too long ago. keep searching and you will find!! BTW in those threads you listed, there were good points on why not to run a cat. but do as you will.

ovrrdrive

Well, I got the exhaust done today...

I did like I said with a cut right after the O2 sensor and 2.25" pipe to the Magnaflow, and 2.5 out the side where the stock pipe went out.

Performance wise, I can't immediately tell a difference. It definitely didn't lose anything but I didn't notice any gains right away either. I only drove it about 6 miles though, and didn't want to push it very hard due to the pinging issue so it will take a bit to know for sure. It doesn't ping in the morning though so I'll get into it tomorrow on the way to work.

Sound wise there is a nice rumble back there now.

If you get on it it starts to wail pretty ricily at what I guess to be 3-3500 rpms, but down low it sounds really nice. In traffic I am very pleased with the sound.

As for the ping of course it made no difference. If anything it is pinging a little more now.

I'll update again after I change plugs, cap and rotor this weekend.

Spanky

let us know!!

mt_goat

Are you sure about that?

CoedNaked

This thread goes from a guy having a problem with pinging with 91 octane to performance mods for the 22RE? First thing's first, figure out your problem, then talk performance mods. The 22RE doesn't put out enough air to warrant anything larger than 2 1/4" - in fact 2" would probably be perfect seeing as how 2 1/4" is perfect for a catback exhaust for the 3vze and it puts out more air and has 2 more cylinders and more displacement.

Secondly - ditch the plugs as mentioned - do you think you could also have a problem with carbon build up? Also, wouldn't lowering the timing just be compounding the problem while running 91 more and more?

ovrrdrive

Yeah.... I'm afraid that was my own fault. I've been trying to salvage the thread though, but a little side track never hurt anyone right?


4 people say ditch the Bosches, that's good enough for me. They're gone as soon as I get time this weekend or possibly sooner if I get a chance to go by the auto parts store.

I'm going to go ahead and do the NGK plugs, and a cap and rotor for good measure too while I'm under the hood.

Does anyone think richening up the mixture a little might help?

I do have the bigger valves and cam, and now the exhaust...

As far as the timing is concerned, if you advance it you need higher octane. Since I am running 91-93 already and pinging, I have been lowering the timing to compensate for the pinging and it has been making it drivable, but something is definitely going on still.

I'm betting it will end up being TPS or distributor related... Hope not though. Something is advancing the timing on me... Do these distributors have mechanical advances in them?

I bet I still have the original dist in there that has 205k on it now...

trythis

Seriously, check you TPS. Your TPS is easy to diagnose, just take off that intake throttle body, label the vac hoses, remove some screws, and use a ohm meter. It is not hard to adjust, but if it is worn out, you wont be able to get it to stay adjusted. If that is the case your timing is off and will not stay right. You have to have a good TPS to solve your problem.
You could just have a bad thermostat, just a long shot. But a temp sensor could be keeping things aout of whack.

I vote TPS to get your timing issues straight.

Spanky

yeah, pretty sure... someone explain why you wouldnt want back pressure??

TNRabbit

Are you shorting the terminals when you set the timing? You know 5 degrees BTDC is the standard for the 22re?

I second the TPS. You do NOT have to remove it from the engine to test it.

Try running a couple bottles of Seafoam thru the engine (one in the tank, one thru the TB) to clean out any sludge/carbon buildup that may be contributing to pinging. BE CAREFUL when you do the TB thing; many ppl are just sticking the vacuum hose from the brake master cylinder into the bottle, but the instructions recommend against this! It is better to very slowly pour about 1/2 bottle into the vacuum hose while revving the engine to prevent it dying. you can very easily hydrolock the engine with too much liquid and blow a head gasket, or worse, bend a rod.

trythis

OK, I will try the reason you don't want back pressure:
You don't want back pressure, you want heat. You want the exhaust to escape, but not too fast. Sort-of... You want the exhaust to hold heat and that allows it to flow faster. If there is too much room in the pipes, the air will cool off and move slower as it leaves the system. Cold air moves slower, so hot air is better, right? If your exhaust air leaves too fast each stroke, then the next puff of exhaust is going to get cold faster. THis would create back pressure that you really don't want. This also explains why people wrap their exhaust headers becasue the thin tubing they are made of doesnt hold heat as well as Iron. I think this is why our 22re stock exhaust manifolds are not too bad, since they are already pretty close to a header in design. THey hold heat cause they are so thick, and iron spreads heat much better than stainless, or regular steel.

If the exhaust is too cold, which I doubt can happen, your catalytic converter will not get hot enough and not do its job and then you contribute to smog, asthma, emphazima etc. (BTW not Ozone depletion, that is freon and old spray propellants.)

I didnt make this up, someone else on another website wrote about it and I am writing what I remember. I was directed there by a link on this site, after thinkning backpressure was good. It doesnt make sense that you would want it unless you are driving a 2 cycle motor cross bike, but I think that is to kep teh heat up in the cylinder to help combustion. (total guess, but maybe that is relevant here too?)

edit: Sorry for completing the hijack of your thread.