Snortin Nortin

NICE !! I got low gears 4:88 I think , Rebuilt 22re it works nice but is affected by temp change really bad !

sticksnstones

wow.

Where has this thread been? There are others out there like me? Hallelujah?
I've been chasing in a very similar fashion a ping under load around 4th/5th gear for way too long.
No vac leaks. Newer fuel pump/ filter/ regulator, all injectors firing. New plugs/cap/rotor/wires/ signal generator
Egr blocked off and it is NOT the issue because it ran ping free for 3 years before this happened. I even reinstalled/tested/troubleshot until working to satiate this sanity and it changed nothing.
Engine idles perfectly, starts up no matter what. 236k never sounded so good. Compression is 170 across the board and very little carbon build up.
This has been a 1 year and counting effin issue. Afm solder failed on a road trip, replaced with used and drove 2000 miles back home. This was the first time I've ever heard the truck ping at 200k though the used afm tests out with a digital ohmmeter( never used an analog). I'm now questioning how "used" it was as the ebay seller provided no mileage.. need to open it up and do a sweep test. I'm at the point where I'm just ready to throw a new one at it...

I was replacing fuel filter last year and broke my knock sensor, replaced with 2 different used ones. The 2nd finally killed the CEL.....

Feel like I should replace both with new now....

I thought I had fixed it recently when replacing a suspect signal generator on the distributor....When I rechecked timing it was super advanced. Reset and it ran GREAT with no pings for about 4 days and the pings came back with avengeance....maybe time enough for the ECU to relearn a fuel curve??

Did the knock sensor fix the problem long term?????!?!?!?!?!?! I want that!

sticksnstones

Which knock sensor did you get from rock auto?

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Ok; you have some parts in the mix that are sub-standard. Who remanufactured the dizzy is important. Who made the knock sensor is important. Now the AFM is not the best since I bet its got a flat spot at one end, since that's where the issue is. If its pinging, that means the ecu is not able to retard timing to make it go away. Check the dizzy coils according to the manual and made double damn sure both coils are right. Then go from there. I've been away for awhile, you woke me up.

sticksnstones

Sub standard? I'm confused.
it's not a remanned distributor, it's original. I replaced the signal generator in the distributor(what the rotor sits on) and the air gap is set correctly.
The rest of the ignition system tested to spec.

The knock sensors are used oem from another 22re. The one that is installed now at least allowed the CEL to turn off.

The used AFM is oem, with unknown mileage. It very well could have issues, as I've never gotten the same mileage as my previous. It passed the basic ohm test from the fsm.

It gets hard to identify just one thing when you are working on the truck a lot over the years. I'm going to retest the AFM and see what it looks like.....

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

something is out. just because it says Toyota on it doesn't mean its in spec. if its pinging in high gear your initial timing is too advanced or you have oil consumption. did you set timing with the jumper? is the gas good? I have two gas stations near me that sell highly adulterated gas. Call it too much ethanol, or too damn fast. They both sell bad gas everyday and get away with it. My jeeps will not idle until I get them hot with that spoo.

sticksnstones

Well I definitely have oil consumption. She's burning a ~quart/1500 miles. Running 5w-40 HDEO. Assume that my rings are pretty worn out though I have good compression( 170s on all 4). New viton valve guides 70k miles ago when I had head job done.

Timing has always been set with a timing light the diagnostic leads jumpered. Right now it is set at 3 degrees btdc and it doesn't ping unless full throttle up a hill.

I retested afm, it passed static and dynamic sweep tests with nothing abnormal. I opened it up to make sure the conductive strip wasn't worn...looks good and all connections are clean with fresh grease.

I use the same 4 gas stations in my area depending which side of town i'm on, but historically I've just filled up at one and never had issues there.

Last summer I definitely got a bad tank of 87 from a podunk station and had a hell of day before I could get higher test in there....unfortunately that was on a pretty new fuel filter blugh..

I've since ran multiple rounds of injector cleaner, and will be installing another fuel filter when it arrives along with a new knock sensor. Put on a fresh o2 sensor today to see if it helps. When the knock sensor/fuel filter arrive I'll reset back to 5 degrees and try again.


Only smoking gun is that when I have the timing light on un jumpered it jumps back and forth a touch... never rock solid on one number. tdc mark on pulley points to the #1 piston on dizzy.. Chain stretch??? Ignition components?

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Timing jumps around because the ECU is in control without the jumper. Now have you sent the fuel injectors out to witchhunter for cleaning and testing? You may have a bad one, over use of injector cleaner is not the best thing, they do wear out. At this point the oil consumption is probably your issue. You could try 89 octane gas but 93 is just too lazy for this engine since it cannot advance timing enough to make burn properly. There are oil separator spark plug spacers that might help or a much hotter plug to burn though the oil. Can you send pictures of the spark plugs? Have you ever cleaned all the EGR spoo out of the intake? I know mine was so bad it took awhile to clean it all out, before blocking the EGR for good.

I do suspect that large jumps in timing from the ecu is a sign of a misfiring engine and it cannot figure out what the "timing should be". One thing I have noticed is that the coil is rather hard on the secondary ignition components. The cap in particular likes to carbon track. Just hit me, do you have an oil catch can on the PCV port? That might actually help if you don't.

sticksnstones

well thanks for keeping at this here....

Injectors were sent out to MR. INJECTOR 70k ago. All came back with perfect flow, no leaking. They could be leaking now, as I do suspect them for the gas smell when I change the oil, but it can't be excessive because I'm still getting 18-21 mpg. I drive long commutes and would expect the gas to burn out when hot... fuel pressure is pretty good and my tank holds pressure, so they can't leak that bad. Each injector happily clicks, solenoids tested ok, and I resoldered all connections and replaced pigtails when I had it all apart.

89 certainly helps a bit, but I'm pretty stubborn about the truck being able to run properly on 87.

Plugs have some oil/ fuel additive ash but do not appear excessively lean or overheating. No black specs from preignition/detonation or damage. All 4 read identical with no telltale cylinders. That surprised me....

PVC hose routes to intake plenum as from factory... never seen an oil catch can.

Things I've tried this week.
New gas cap, definitely increased tank pressure.
New 02 sensor, old one had a bit of soot buildup, still too early to tell. Waiting on new knock sensor before resetting timing back to 5 degrees.
Replaced TB gasket and IACV gasket,.
retested TPS.....it failed two tests. not far off from what they should have been, but 230k might be a factor? I'm okay replacing it and one is on the way; I'm keeping this truck and I have no qualms as I'm not just throwing money at it.
Truck runs horrible with it unplugged, always drops idle and returns when jumpering diagnostic ports, and it tested to spec before, so maybe something subtle has changed or the resistors in the sensor are finally wearing out and it's been slow to show itself. Thoughts?
Changed the oil to rotella t6 5w-40. Hoping it may help a touch with consumption, we will see. I know the consumption doesn't really help my situation either way.

Intake was hot tanked and is still pretty clean without the EGR. PCV/blowby is really the only contribution to intake gunk at this point, but TB remains super clean.

Certainly a head scratcher. I'd love for the knock sensor or TPS to be the culprits and be done with the endless diagnostics and second guessing myself.

We'll see when parts come in.

Cheers

sticksnstones

Most frustrating is that after doing top end rebuild and timing chain it ran flawlessly for ~70k even sometimes gettng 23-24 mpg on real good gas. Thought I had things "figured out".

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

I agree the parts cannon is not called for. Mine tossed a rod at 336k miles so it should be good for another 100k IMO.

My thinking is that you are getting a lean condition with oil dilution when the engine is near max output in 5th.
70k is a long time, perhaps send them out again to see if the spray pattern has degraded.
Plugs looking good is important, that's a window into what's is actually going on.
If you have a gas smell in the oil, that's bad, one of the five are leaking.

Here is link to a catch can. You can make one with a beer can, glue, and steel wool, along with some elbow grease.
Red Aluminum Baffled Oil Catch Can Tank Reservoir Breather With Fittings J6I4 | eBay

It was designed for 87 but maybe its time to spike it with some 89 or even less of 93 looking for maybe 88.
Your mileage sounds wonderful!

Maybe under load the blowby past the rings is going out the PCV and into the intake and further exasperating what gets past the oil rings. I think you should give an oil catch can a try before you change any parts.

You could; if its just oil past the rings put in an e85 injector for 5th gear only, the ecu will cut injector pulses according to the o2 sensor for the excess fuel.

millball

Just wanna say that it is my opinion that burning a quart of lube oil in 1500 miles is almost certainly not a major factor in these troubles.

I have known several 22re's to still run well with oil consumption in the 4 to 5 hundred miles per quart range.

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Mine ran well right to the end. This engine runs just fine until you get to highway speed in OD / 5th and has a slight rattle or ping.

The oil consumption may be just enough to trigger the rattle or it is running lean only at that moment in time.

So how much oil contamination is required for causation?

At some point a wideband O2 sensor for A/F readouts and data storage will be required. But I'm not there yet, and I do not think the OP is either. So do please try to come up with a number or amount.

millball

I still don't think oil contamination of the air/fuel stream is the issue

The engine control scheme is specificly designed to run lean as possible at cruise, both for fuel economy, and for minimum emissions.

Any correlation of rattle at cruise to moderate oil consumption may well be connected to preignition caused by incandescent ash deposits on spark plugs when operating at cruise.

The composition of and the amount of such deposits are directly related to the chemistry of the particular oil and its additive package as well as to the length of time the plugs have been in service.

No matter what the oil consumption is, if there is no oil fouling on the plugs, a slightly cooler plug might give a better result at cruise

sticksnstones

I don't fully understand how oil mist would affect the Air/fuel ratio. Never looked into the catch can deal, will look into it.
The truck runs great at idle and at WOT minus the detonation issue, otherwise I'd have no complaints!
I did not consider the ash deposit on the plug as a source for ignition other than spark, thank you for bringing that up. 2 weeks ago I threw new w16exr-u plugs in( NGK Bpr5ey before) and the pinging did not subside until I retarded timing, so therefore it would have to be something else as a source of ignition, but that's more to conclude so thank you. I switched to 5w-40 2 weeks ago and oil level has yet to drop but still too soon to tell in terms of consumption.
I have read and considered, but not tried the cooler plug idea. Anyone run the NGK or Denso next step cooler plug with results?

Leaking/partially clogged injectors may be the issue, but it is not apparent by reading the spark plugs. One thought I had would it could be a vacuum leak at the injector o ring seals? They are starting to show signs of age with a touch of cracking..... hmm.

New knock sensor is installed, have not driven yet but will reset to 5 degrees and test. New TPS will arrive next week.

As of now, it is set at ~3.5 degrees btdc and has not been pinging on 89, but we have had cool rainy weather. True test is our summers.

Replacing brake lines on wife's CR-V this weekend. Will check in next week. Thank you all. Anyone else out there in 22re land have any thoughts?

millball

Keep in mind that unlike the 'Higher number means Hotter plug' nomenclature used by Champion, Bosch, and other makers......

In both the NGK and Denso heat range systems, a LOWER number designates a HOTTER plug.