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oh no.Rod knock?

Old 11-28-2018, 09:10 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by RJR View Post
You could have a cracked exhaust manifold that only leaks when it gets hot and expands. Some exhaust leaks can sound very "mechanical" in nature. Get a piece of rubber hose about 3 feet long and use it to listen to various points around the exhaust system.
I have been using a mechanics stethoscope but I still can't really pin point exactly where it is coming from. If I put a bit of atf in spark plug hole it would in theory show itself yeah?
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Mason Edmison View Post
I have been using a mechanics stethoscope but I still can't really pin point exactly where it is coming from. If I put a bit of atf in spark plug hole it would in theory show itself yeah?
Well, an exhaust leak is an acoustic sound, not a mechanical vibration, so you'll have better luck finding such a leak with the hose trick rather than a mechanic's stethoscope, which picks up mechanical vibrations from whatever you touch. Both are useful, but exhaust or vacuum leaks are best found with a piece of hose.
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RJR View Post
Well, an exhaust leak is an acoustic sound, not a mechanical vibration, so you'll have better luck finding such a leak with the hose trick rather than a mechanic's stethoscope, which picks up mechanical vibrations from whatever you touch. Both are useful, but exhaust or vacuum leaks are best found with a piece of hose.
acustic sound, mechanical vibration.... I applaud your theory but that is just a transmission thru the air (just another media, steel air water only have different speed limits) of the vibration.. The hose trick works because you can fit a hose places you cant fit your hand or ear. My goto to for exhaust leaks is my hand on a cold engine, you can also eyeball things looking for the tell tale ashy white spots.

That said the hose does isolate a bit of the background and let you put your ear closer to things than you would want your head..

Mason, you need to change that oil mate a few times if you are still getting metallic particles. There are several issues here. obviously metal in the oil flow acts as an abrasive this will eat load bearing surfaces rapidly. It can also pulg off the filtration system so much so that the oil pressure bypass activates which then shuts off the filter and pumps this abrasive oil mixture straight to the bearing surfaces and they will rapidly errode.

Worst case scenario, you've got a bend rod and or bad main bearing.

Best case you've got a sticking valve, and hopefully have not banged up either the valve or piston surface yet and not bent the valve yet. (The faster the engine rpm the faster the valve needs to slam shut, if it's hanging up abit it can contact the piston. This could explain why it's not a notable sound at idle)

In retrospect I hope you see the importance of having the engine fully disassembled and cleaned after you have a breach of the oil-water barrier. No matter how badly it milkshaked the lubrication was contaminated, add in a bit of grit and you now have essentially the same system used in water jet cutting machines (coolant, lubricants, grit!, and pressure)..
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
acustic sound, mechanical vibration.... I applaud your theory but that is just a transmission thru the air (just another media, steel air water only have different speed limits) of the vibration..
I understand acoustics quite well, thank you. There's absolutely no call for you to be making snarky comments about my differentiation of air generated sounds vs those generated by mechanical vibrations. Both end up as acoustic waves before you hear them, for sure, but how they are generated has a lot to do with the best way to track them down. You'll have a pretty frustrating time trying to run down a leaky vacuum hose with a mechanical stethoscope, for example, but it's easy with a 3 foot piece of fuel hose.

I don't know if the OP has a leaky exhaust or not. I simply offered it as a simple thing to check out that has a finite chance of being his hard-to-find problem.
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RJR View Post
....

I don't know if the OP has a leaky exhaust or not. I simply offered it as a simple thing to check out that has a finite chance of being his hard-to-find problem.
He has a thunk sound on his intake side valve cover nut.

Dollars to doughnuts, that's not an exhaust leak.

By all means Mason exhaust all your available diagnostics tools, we've seen people find leaks with a simple paper towel roll cardboard.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
acustic sound, mechanical vibration.... I applaud your theory but that is just a transmission thru the air (just another media, steel air water only have different speed limits) of the vibration.. The hose trick works because you can fit a hose places you cant fit your hand or ear. My goto to for exhaust leaks is my hand on a cold engine, you can also eyeball things looking for the tell tale ashy white spots.

That said the hose does isolate a bit of the background and let you put your ear closer to things than you would want your head..

Mason, you need to change that oil mate a few times if you are still getting metallic particles. There are several issues here. obviously metal in the oil flow acts as an abrasive this will eat load bearing surfaces rapidly. It can also pulg off the filtration system so much so that the oil pressure bypass activates which then shuts off the filter and pumps this abrasive oil mixture straight to the bearing surfaces and they will rapidly errode.

Worst case scenario, you've got a bend rod and or bad main bearing.

Best case you've got a sticking valve, and hopefully have not banged up either the valve or piston surface yet and not bent the valve yet. (The faster the engine rpm the faster the valve needs to slam shut, if it's hanging up abit it can contact the piston. This could explain why it's not a notable sound at idle)

In retrospect I hope you see the importance of having the engine fully disassembled and cleaned after you have a breach of the oil-water barrier. No matter how badly it milkshaked the lubrication was contaminated, add in a bit of grit and you now have essentially the same system used in water jet cutting machines (coolant, lubricants, grit!, and pressure)..
so I think my game plan this weekend is to
Adjust the valves one more time
check oil pressure
if pressure is fine
Pull oil pan inspect rods and bearings
-if play remove bearing and plastigauge to see if I can at least band aid it for now by doing them now
-else out of spec - pull the engine
If no play in rod bearings etc.
- pull timing cover and inspect
- clean ports going to tensioner and replace with oem tensioner.
Else if oil pressure is wonky or weird Iím not really sure what to do..


I hadnít considered valve to piston contact as Iím pretty sure it could have been making this noise before I did this job (hard to day because the timing chain was so bad it was making several different noises) and the tops of the pistons looked fine.

I emailed ted from engn builder and he seems like he suspected something in the timing assembly
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:08 AM
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Plastigauge is only reliable for a concentric surface, you may have some egg shape going on so have a caliper handy.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:00 AM
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Gotcha. I have a digital caliper Iíll have near haha

Last edited by Mason Edmison; 11-29-2018 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:20 AM
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Does the distributor bearing have play?
Lube up the gear with some oil. Is the bolt tight on the camshaft?

I'll scroll to listen for the 11th time )))
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:03 PM
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tightened the cam bolt down to 58 footer pounds. Good call on the dizzy bearing, Ill have to check that.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:53 PM
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Good luck wrenching!
replace the tensioner.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:46 AM
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Any updates?
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:37 AM
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Unfortunately I had to put this project on pause due to a lack of funds. Fortunately/ unfortunately, I have to drive it like it is for now.
Will definitely get to it at some point in which I will post my results.
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mason Edmison View Post
Unfortunately I had to put this project on pause due to a lack of funds. Fortunately/ unfortunately, I have to drive it like it is for now.
Will definitely get to it at some point in which I will post my results.
Maybe, in the usual toyota fashion, it will simply stop at one point and be just fine.
In any case, you will find the problem in time.
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:53 AM
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well, I had some time to pull the oil pan and its not looking good. All of the bearings have some side to side play but only cyl #2 had up and down play. I removed the cylinder # 2 rod cap to find
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:57 AM
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crank bearing

rod bearing

didn't even bother pulling any of the others. The crank shaft surface is not terrible but there are some slight grooves in it. I really don't know what to do here. If I should try to pull it and rebuild it. or try to find one to drop in it.

I bought the truck for 500 dollars and have probably put 500 more into it so the idea of sinking more money into it kind of makes me sick.

Last edited by Mason Edmison; 12-17-2018 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mason Edmison View Post
well, I had some time to pull the oil pan and its not looking good. All of the bearings have some side to side play but only cyl #2 had up and down play. I removed the cylinder # 2 rod cap to find
Details Monsieur or Madame..

Side to side, intake to exhaust or fore aft. (Not so much relevant, but curious what you tried)..

Up and down, presumably the connecting rod /piston direction?

You wouldn't notice any movement on a proper clearance bearing since it has a spec of a few thousandths.

Really dig that first bearing picture, saddening but, it shows the composite construction method very well.

Good news is you caught it before it spun in the cap and destroyed the block. Congratulations you saved a classic Toyota.
...
A machine shop might be able to turn that crankshaft down and it fit an available bearing size, but until they try you won't know for certain if it needs resurfaced. They will also try to talk you out of doing it.

You are only 1k in to it and already balking, this is a bad sign.. But we urge you to stick with it. Buy another "dime a dozen" beater, do a little bit of work and sell it when the Yoda is fixed for a small profit.. Win win.

Terry has used several ~1k$ engines from a place that escapes my mind currently.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
Details Monsieur or Madame..

Side to side, intake to exhaust or fore aft. (Not so much relevant, but curious what you tried)..

Up and down, presumably the connecting rod /piston direction?

You wouldn't notice any movement on a proper clearance bearing since it has a spec of a few thousandths.

Really dig that first bearing picture, saddening but, it shows the composite construction method very well.

Good news is you caught it before it spun in the cap and destroyed the block. Congratulations you saved a classic Toyota.
...
A machine shop might be able to turn that crankshaft down and it fit an available bearing size, but until they try you won't know for certain if it needs resurfaced. They will also try to talk you out of doing it.

You are only 1k in to it and already balking, this is a bad sign.. But we urge you to stick with it. Buy another "dime a dozen" beater, do a little bit of work and sell it when the Yoda is fixed for a small profit.. Win win.

Terry has used several ~1k$ engines from a place that escapes my mind currently.

haha I was still very worked up on that last post. Since calming down... I am going to pull it and rebuild it. I talked to my machine shop guy and he thinks for deck tanking the block, honing the cylinders, decking it and *hopefully* turning the crank I'd be looking at about 200 dollars. I see that several places (lce) sell several different sizes of oversized bearings so that leaves me hopeful.

ah when I meant side to side, I think I meant what you called fore and aft or front to back of engine. Definite noticeable up and down (connecting rod and piston direction) on cylinder 2.

Luckily, I have my trusty honda accord to drive in the meantime (it has very rusted fuel lines so fingers crossed, gd wisconsin living).

Anyways, Im hoping to get the engine ready to pull this week so I can hopefully either A) rent a cherry picker or B) buy one from h freight.
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:52 PM
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That labor quote. *boggle* we were paying that much in the early nineties!

It probably doesn't need decked make sure they check it first. Rather than blindly milling it, they should do this anyway but it's worth bringing it up.

Honing: you will get your monies worth here alone if you can get them to do it to factory tolerances. It was one thousandth (meteic!) if🥰 I recall correctly. There is an engine builder magazine article that covers this, find it, print it, and pass it along to them.

Line bore: you probably don't need this since it didn't spin the bearings. But they should check the cap/block elliptically.

Fwiw, the labor quote I got for installing a crate engine was more than I payed for a hoist, engine leveler, engine stand, various tools, fluids ext, nice 12*8" shed, four sheets of pressure treated 3/4" ply, various roofing materials, other odds and ends, and a rental truck.. (Yeah I put in a lot of hours on it but.. Toyota "I'm loving it!" I could have been doing worse things...)
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
That labor quote. *boggle* we were paying that much in the early nineties!

It probably doesn't need decked make sure they check it first. Rather than blindly milling it, they should do this anyway but it's worth bringing it up.

Honing: you will get your monies worth here alone if you can get them to do it to factory tolerances. It was one thousandth (meteic!) if🥰 I recall correctly. There is an engine builder magazine article that covers this, find it, print it, and pass it along to them.

Line bore: you probably don't need this since it didn't spin the bearings. But they should check the cap/block elliptically.

Fwiw, the labor quote I got for installing a crate engine was more than I payed for a hoist, engine leveler, engine stand, various tools, fluids ext, nice 12*8" shed, four sheets of pressure treated 3/4" ply, various roofing materials, other odds and ends, and a rental truck.. (Yeah I put in a lot of hours on it but.. Toyota "I'm loving it!" I could have been doing worse things...)
ha I don't even want to know what a shop would charge me for pulling this engine. I am sure they would quote me really high so that they wouldn't have to do it. I'm sure they would rather change brakes and rotors on camry's all day, haha.

Alright, I'll try to track down that article that talks about the cylinder honing. Hopefully I can get it ready to pull this week. I think Im going to keep as much on the engine as possible (not removing intake or exhaust) and just lay the wire harness over the engine. Take all of it off when it's on the stand. I think I had the engine pretty much separated when I did the recent work on it minus separating it from the transmission - from what I hear, this can be a real PITA, especially the top 2 bell housing bolts. Any tips here? Most people just say to use a crap load of extensions or a box wrench ( I doubt I'll have enough leverage with a box wrench though).
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