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New Injectors, NO START!?!

Old 08-18-2018, 03:37 PM
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New Injectors, NO START!?!

87 22REC 4Runner: Failed smog so I figured I'd change out the injectors to new ones from LCE last night. Failed smog but runs good. Last year same thing and witchdoctor tested and one of the injectors was "off" from the other 3. Got them back and installed and passed. So this year I figured I'd just get new ones, probably same thing. I think I have a lot of crap in my gas tank. changed fuel filter and installed the new ones. Put it all back together and now it's not starting.....???

Cranking, but no starting. First couple seconds of cranking it makes a cough or two then just goes to flat cranking. Wait twenty mins, cranks, almost makes a start like rumble in first second or two then just turns over and over like it's not getting any gas. getting gas out of the cold start bolt so it's getting gas from tank that tar. Doesn't appear to be leaking. Worked fine before I started. I took the whole thing apart today and RE-DID the whole new injector install just to see if I missed something, Fuel rail and gas hoses had gas in them, still getting gas out of the cold start bolt. Nothing seems to be leaking. Still strong cranking, almost tries to catch then just turns over and over. What am I missing????
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:51 PM
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Take a squirt of starter fluid to see what that does. If it runs (for a squirt), that suggests your injectors aren't opening. (I believe you are supposed to have the low-impedance injectors with the big resistor on the apron. Are you sure you got the ones you need?)

If a squirt of starting fluid makes it worse, that suggests you have a leaking injector. Crank it a bit, then pull the plugs: look for "wet" ones.

If it makes NO difference, that suggests an ignition problem.

I know it's "too late," but just HOW did you fail smog? Was there something about the test that suggested a problem with the injectors, or did you just figure you'd repeat what you did last year? (to the tune of $350)
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:49 PM
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I think last year it was slightly rich. New O2, same, full tune up, same, blocked cold start, same, send injectors for cleaning, passed. Fuel filter was disgusting when i replaced it last year, when i was rebuilding the engine the gas in the tank sat there for a solid 6 mo or more. This one came off draining pretty clean though on the inside. Figuring after a year and being just over on whatever means rich again this year i figured the tank crap was causing the injectors to clog ans dribble a bit again, probably i know, but full tune up this year was a fail so figured id start where left off last year. Witchdoctor would be 2 to 4 weeks and 150 after shipping and the lce was here in 4 days and were 180. And i have a spare set.

Just cant figure out what is suddenly preventing combustion all of a sudden. Hard strong cranking, everything else same as before the pleneum came off when it was running fine.

Upper intake off, vaccum coolant hoses off, fuel filter off, fuel rail off, injectors out.
injectors in, rail in, fuel filter and lines reattach, vacuum lines and coolant lines reattached, upper intake back on, cs attached, air tube attached, vacuum lines attached, new pcv grommet, bat neg cable attach, turn key on and off 2 to 3 times, quick crank once, bleed gas line at cs bolt, turn key off on, bleed gas cs bolt........ only cranks with no start.

I feel like theres something left unplugged, but what could it be? Is there an "injector activation proceedure" im unaware of? They look just like the old ones but cleaner and the connectors snapped right to them at the harness.....
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Drake View Post
... the lce was here in 4 days and were 180. And i have a spare set....
Are you sure you got the correct injectors? This is all I could find (for an '87) on the LCE website: https://www.lceperformance.com/22RET...-p/1062003.htm And they cost a lot more than $180

I know next to nothing about the 22re, but I do know that "early" injectors were low-impedance, and "later" injectors are not. Never the 'twain shall meet.

I doubt you failed smog due to "too rich." Maybe "excessive HC." Too rich (alone) is unlikely because the whole point of having a fuel injected engine is that it dynamically adjusts mixture. Even with drippy injectors. You can hit the limit, of course, and the truck throws a code. On the other hand, "missing" is notorious for causing high HC. But without knowing what your 3 smog (2 last year, 1 this year) tests reported, I'm just guessing.



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Old 08-18-2018, 05:27 PM
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Here we go: https://www.lceperformance.com/22RE-...-p/1062009.htm. Those were Turbo 22RET injectors. I think total bill was just over 220. 50 is the core charge, but i think i'll just increase the backup parts box in the garage. These should be the right ones, physically, I'll look into the electronic requirements side tonight..... It is as if they are not doing any injecting.....
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:35 PM
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And yes, sorry my remembory isn't super good. The one injector spraying a little more or less then the others was causing a slight enough miss and the HC were just out side of OK last year. Witch Doctor replaced that one with closer to the other 3, that were very similar, and that fixed the smog problem without doing anything else. So the LCE was just an attempt to get all 4 near perfect, since this year was another, just miss on the HC's again. And have the confidence to say I have 4 new LCE injectors, so incase it failed again, I could rule that out and look elsewhere. Last year spending 100$$$ on test equipment (new multimeter, new vaccum, test kit, fuel pressure tester, leakdown tester, oil pressure test kit......) just to find out it was the injectors hours and hours of a week and a half later for more 100$$$ I was hoping to just get that out of the way early this time.....

I'm not very smog technical, if you are I'll definatly be hitting you up if it fails again, assuming I can figure out why it's not turning over.....lol
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:37 PM
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Sounds dumb but I'll pulling my hair out. Would the fact that it's ass down on a sloped driveway have ANYTHING to do with how the fuel system "repressurizes" after being taken down and put back together?
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Drake View Post
Sounds dumb but I'll pulling my hair out. Would the fact that it's ass down on a sloped driveway have ANYTHING to do with how the fuel system "repressurizes" after being taken down and put back together?
not in the least. it will work upside down.
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:45 PM
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Thats what I thought, just grasping at straws. The system should bleed its self pushing air bubbles back into the tank right when the pump primes before ignition/cranking right?
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:24 PM
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No need to "prime" the fuel system. I just pushes the air through the FPR (if you run the pump "manually" with FP-B+, you can hear the FPR whistling until the air clears it.)
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:28 PM
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Yep, thats what i thought..... so why doesnt this thing turn over?
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Old 08-18-2018, 09:53 PM
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it does turn over. It even fires. It just doesn't run. (C'mon, try to pick sensible vocabulary.)

Did you try the starting fluid tests I suggested? They can provide basic information.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:02 AM
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Did you hook all the grounds back up when you removed the upper intake manifold?
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:58 PM
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I believe there were two to the harness and got them both, both times i I took it apart and back together.
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:52 AM
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One of the plugs touched ground and blew the EFI or pump fuse?

Last edited by Paul22RE; 08-25-2018 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 08-25-2018, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by scope103 View Post
Take a squirt of starter fluid to see what that does. If it runs (for a squirt), that suggests your injectors aren't opening. (I believe you are supposed to have the low-impedance injectors with the big resistor on the apron. Are you sure you got the ones you need?)

If a squirt of starting fluid makes it worse, that suggests you have a leaking injector. Crank it a bit, then pull the plugs: look for "wet" ones.

If it makes NO difference, that suggests an ignition problem.

I know it's "too late," but just HOW did you fail smog? Was there something about the test that suggested a problem with the injectors, or did you just figure you'd repeat what you did last year? (to the tune of $350)
Originally Posted by scope103 View Post
it does turn over. It even fires. It just doesn't run. (C'mon, try to pick sensible vocabulary.)

Did you try the starting fluid tests I suggested? They can provide basic information.
Originally Posted by Matt Drake View Post
87 22REC 4Runner: Failed smog so I figured I'd change out the injectors to new ones from LCE last night. Failed smog but runs good. Last year same thing and witchdoctor tested and one of the injectors was "off" from the other 3. Got them back and installed and passed. So this year I figured I'd just get new ones, probably same thing. I think I have a lot of crap in my gas tank. changed fuel filter and installed the new ones. Put it all back together and now it's not starting.....???

Cranking, but no starting. First couple seconds of cranking it makes a cough or two then just goes to flat cranking. Wait twenty mins, cranks, almost makes a start like rumble in first second or two then just turns over and over like it's not getting any gas. getting gas out of the cold start bolt so it's getting gas from tank that tar. Doesn't appear to be leaking. Worked fine before I started. I took the whole thing apart today and RE-DID the whole new injector install just to see if I missed something, Fuel rail and gas hoses had gas in them, still getting gas out of the cold start bolt. Nothing seems to be leaking. Still strong cranking, almost tries to catch then just turns over and over. What am I missing????
I'm not sure why, but almost every time myself or someone else recommends "give it a shot of starting fluid" it seems to go unnoticed.
this is a handy diagnostic tool, don't ignore it. We are not suggesting that you now need to use starting fluid every time you want to go grocery shopping, This will tell you without a doubt if you have spark, if there is compression and the engine cranks it will run and you can totally rule out 1/2 of the things that are being suggested that you test and focus on narrowing your diagnosis to a single failure.
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