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so I've got a long thread going about the multitude of problems with the engine in my 86 4runner and the troubleshooting process lead me to pull the engine apart and diagnose one of the main issues as a cracked head. It would cost me nearly as much to have the head repaired and have a valve job done as it would to get a brand new casting assembled, or so I thought, but that was based on engnbldr prices and they are shutdown for a few months at least due to family illness.
I guess I'm wondering if there are other options besides places like LCE or 22re Performance? They seem to be well renown for making quality stuff but the prices are quite a bit higher. Does anyone have any recommendations for a new assembled casting that is close to comparable to engnbldr in price and quality?
I'm under the impression that Engnbldr uses DNJ castings and I noticed fully assembled heads from DNJ run about 230$ ... As I understand it engnbldr uses the heads but may use other parts for the assembly of the head, it's not clear to me if engnbldr uses all DNJ parts or not, anyone know? Anyone have experience with these DNJ assembled heads? Are valve tolerances all out of whack from cheapo retainers? 230$ seems too good to be true but I also notice a lot of rebranding going on with these rebuild kits and parts for the 22re so basically I don't want to spend 450$ for the same thing I could get for 230$. If anyone has insight on the DNJ assembled heads I'd appreciate that. Any suggestions on a good affordable route to go would be appareciated.
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 04-05-2018 at 12:13 PM.
I just responded to you other thread, but I'll throw in my '02 again.
If at all possible, rebuild a genuine Toyota casting, I'd even caution against using other than genuine toyota valves, especially the exhaust valves. They see hellish heat daily.
Chinese stuff often has little, or no quality control in the alloys used.
These parts are cheap for two reasons: Slave labor, and scrap metal with no control of correct alloying elements necessary for proper strength and endurance.
I just responded to you other thread, but I'll throw in my '02 again.
If at all possible, rebuild a genuine Toyota casting, I'd even caution against using other than genuine toyota valves, especially the exhaust valves. They see hellish heat daily.
Chinese stuff often has little, or no quality control in the alloys used.
These parts are cheap for two reasons: Slave labor, and scrap metal with no control of correct alloying elements necessary for proper strength and endurance.
good advice I think. Per your question on the other thread I think this engine was rebuilt once before so it probably was decked already once, there is a crack in the coolant passage between cyl3&4 and a ton of rusty funk in the coolant passages. The block is similar and needs to be looked at too due to a knock in piston #2. I plan to get everything looked at before pulling the trigger on any parts or deciding on a path I'm just the type of person that likes to get all my ducks in a row and know my options ahead of time. I think it's good advice to use a OEM head and rebuild it, I'm not sure if what I have is OEM though and I was under the impression rebuilding with repairs would cost more than buying new, I just didn't realize the aftermarket castings were that flooded with Chinese crap I was under the impression Latin America was producing the good stuff. Anyway to tell if my head is OEM Is there a casting ID I should be seeing? Do suggesting pulling a head from a junkyard engine or something like that and rebuilding it?
This is the kind of crud I'm dealing with: See some corrosion has taken part of the coolant passage wall with it and the crack is in the round passage at the lower right of the image ... crack goes all the way across to cyl4.
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 04-05-2018 at 01:28 PM.
I'm not sure how to identify a Toyota cast head from an aftermarket one right off.
I don't have any aftermarket ones on hand to look at, and I don't see any ID that jumps out at me on my original one at a quick look..
Looking at a factory head in my possession though, I can tell you that a genuine Toyota cam has the Japanese character logo cast into a circle on the shaft between #3 and #4 lobes and
genuine toyota valves have this logo cast into their faces. The head I'm looking at came from a 1987 'Runner.
I would be happy to hear of and see any toyota aftermarket castings that are not chinese slave labor goods, but I don't know of any.
I'm not sure how to identify a Toyota cast head from an aftermarket one right off.
I don't have any aftermarket ones on hand to look at, and I don't see any ID that jumps out at me on my original one at a quick look..
Looking at a factory head in my possession though, I can tell you that a genuine Toyota cam has the Japanese character logo cast into a circle on the shaft between #3 and #4 lobes and
genuine toyota exhaust valves have this logo cast into their faces. The head I'm looking at came from a 1987 'Runner.
on my cam I just see a number 1 I think anyway and the cam doesn't seem very good quality it's got left over metals on the side of the lobes. It's also got a little bit of pitting on the lobes. The casting just has the number 30 and 1.3 cast into the head bellow the cam and the number 30 outside bellow where the distributor shaft inserts into the head. The previous owner said they rebuilt it but so far he's been full of lies so who knows.
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 04-05-2018 at 01:38 PM.
well if these are OEM valves and head casting then the seller definitley lied about the rebuild based on some of the other Jerry rigging I doubt he spent the money to get a Toyota rebuilt head. Anyway I appreciate the insight on using an OE head ... since it seems likely this thing wasn't rebuilt, there is a chance this head wasn't decked and I might be able to reuse it. I was just assuming it was rebuilt and already decked at least once but I should just stop assuming anything and get the parts checked at a machine shop. Thanks again.
LCE gets their heads from a company called AMC in Spain, so there is a non-Chinese aftermarket option.
22RE Performance gets their heads from a wholesale only vendor but I am not sure where the vendor gets the heads from.
I read some comments from engnbldr Ted on a forum dating back about 10 years where he said the Spanish castings where the quality aftermarket castings so I'm going out on a limb to say that the DNJ castings they use today are probably Spanish or Argentinian but I can't find info to back that up.
I googled AMC Spain Looks like they have a large operation and a good reputation. Not slave labor goods.
LC engineerings prices reflect this.
LCE does have a decent deal on a stock casting with valves but it explicitly states on the page that it can't be used with an aftermarket cam "stock only". $399 for their stock assembled head without a stock spec cam. The cam is about $250 more. Anyway I'll make a note to not get a Chinese or Taiwanese casting If I do get a new head.
I think my machinist has a Toyota head that he did not get paid for laying around in his shop and I have a spare '87 head in the garage. let me know if your interested.
I have actual experience with dnj I have the complete dnj head and dnj rocker arms and rocker shafts there well made I would of sent them back if they wernt i removed my head to replace my timing chain my head was fine I just notice scaring on my camshaft and for the money I replaced everything for around 400 bucks I used partsology they have free next day shipping my only word of caution is to check your rocker arm alignment mine did not line up perfectly so I bought shims from lce I think as long as your rocker arms are in good alignment you won't have a problem my truck is running strong with no signs of wear yet
Thanks but my head wasn't actually cracked it was just discoloration where the headgasket had a crack and was leaking into the cylinder head surface. i ended being able to keep my OEM casting, cam, and rocker assembly which was all in pretty good shape and the head is being magnafluxed and cleaned and is getting a valve job on it all for 270$ Including taping everything and putting in new studs.
Hell yeah man that sounds cheap for all the work involved in that and I'm sure the factory toyota head is better than any aftermarket post some pictures of your project interested in how it turns out for ya
Hell yeah man that sounds cheap for all the work involved in that and I'm sure the factory toyota head is better than any aftermarket post some pictures of your project interested in how it turns out for ya
the block was the exoensive part it need to be bored over .020 and decked ... entire problem was caused by the warped deck of the block also my big ends of my rods were about .030 out of round so that was what the knocking I had was... it ended up costing a pretty penny but the cost included quality pistons and rings and he ended up replacing valves so it was a little more than 270 for the head rebuild ... that was 295 in the end ... still a killer deal and he adjusted the valve travel to account for the decking of the head and block. I'm pleased with the quality of work. Now if o didn't just cut my thumb to the bone on the ring compressor tool everything would be awesome lol! Instead it's not so awesome, it's ER time for some stitches.
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 06-09-2018 at 08:22 PM.
04-05-2018, 12:09 PM
