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I recently bought a 1986 pickup 4x4, single cab, long bed, auto, and got it running and on the road. The problems I have left to address are a rusted bed, no AC, and a poor/no start condition. The starting issue is the more pressing issue right now. Battery voltage remains steady, charging (alternator) voltage is constant. The starter tests out fine. Any ideas? I can't find a starter relay to check and I am running low on ideas and patience. Thanks in advance for the help. My next task will be the AC. I don't want to face the TX summer without AC.
The following are items I have replaced while getting this truck back on the road.
New belts, hoses, water pump, low temp T-stat
New fuel tank, fuel pump
New battery, new jumper from battery to passenger side fuse panel
New brake lines - old line burst and ate the original gas tank.
Remember, the wiring could be a potential problem but other possibilities exist as well. Since your truck probably does not have a starter relay, your wiring will differ from what is shown in the post above.
Sorry - It is the 22R-E, auto. It cranks 90% of the time with a little bit of work. The starter cranking speed seems slow (like a low supply voltage scenario) but it will start. All connectors on the battery are new and sealed, any wire connection has heat shrink, and connecting posts have been cleaned. If the auto trucks don't have a relay, does that mean all starting amps are running through the key switch?
The first few times this happened, I jumped the truck off. This helped and starter cranking speed seemed normal each time. So this seems like the key switch isn't allowing enough volts and amps through to the starter. Am I on the right track?
Sorry - It is the 22R-E, auto. It cranks 90% of the time with a little bit of work. The starter cranking speed seems slow (like a low supply voltage scenario) but it will start. All connectors on the battery are new and sealed, any wire connection has heat shrink, and connecting posts have been cleaned. If the auto trucks don't have a relay, does that mean all starting amps are running through the key switch?
even the trucks with the starter relay were wired incorrectly from the factory. do read rad4r's thread, and other posts about "no crank/no start".
RAD4Runner will probably chime in too as he created the thread and seems to be the most knowledgeable on the subject. I would definitely read his post.
When you turn the key, you complete the starter solenoid coil circuit. The solenoid is what allows the starter to work and draw power directly from the battery via the large cable running from the battery to the starter.
Since there is no relay (in your case), the power needed for the solenoid goes directly through the ignition switch. The solenoid draws about 12 amps (according to RAD4Runner). What Toyota attempted to do is to reduce the current flowing through the switch (so you don't burn up the contacts) was to add a relay so the ignition switch would only feed the low amperage draw of a relay coil and then the relay would be supplying power to the higher amperage solenoid circuit.
However, the way Toyota wired in the relay virtually didn't make a difference. Instead of having the relay coil as one circuit and the relay contacts on a different circuit, like most relays are wired, Toyota had them wired together making the relay fairly useless.
It seems to be recommended for people who have the relay to correct the factory wiring or for people who do not have the relay to wire one in like RAD4Runner has in his post.
Even though I have not had the problems described. I will eventually add a relay to my truck with the corrected wiring to preserve my ignition switch and put less stress in the ignition wiring.
I hope that helps and not too confusing. I am sure RAD4Runner can help if you have questions.
... If the auto trucks don't have a relay, does that mean all starting amps are running through the key switch?
Originally Posted by old87yota
...Since there is no relay (in your case), the power needed for the solenoid goes directly through the ignition switch....
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT ^^^^
I WOULD VERIFY EVEN MY OWN GUESS SO LET'S THOROUGHLY CHECK, INCLUDING YOUR STARTER SOLENOID:
. Procedure is here. Let us know what you see, hear, feel, smell (please not smoke- LOL!).
THEN LET'S FIX THE KNOWN AND PROVEN PROBLEM:
It's an auto so no starter relay.
Because of the power loss on the looong wiring (whether with relay or no relay), either the solenoid would not actuate or if it does actuate it will do so weakly, not allowing the solenoid contacts to close all the way, and also causing voltage drop across the solenoid, reducing power to turn the starter. Solenoid not closing all the way also causes unnecessary heating of the contacts - same reason that a loosely fitting electrical plug and outlet at home heat up. This further shortens life of contacts.
Adding a properly-wired relay will fix that. Here... fix it...
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Welcome to the forum and meet the cousins and sister..
In San Diego...
In Northern Cal...
Oh.... another sister in Borrego Springs, CA...
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 06-11-2017 at 12:23 PM.
Thanks for all the info guys. Is that a rust free bed I see there Rad4Runner? Those are some good looking rigs.
Most welcome. Please do that simple test I suggest above and let us know.
Yes, that truck looked clean. Just came upon it at a storage place I used. Mine is the one with kayak. I saw the Turbo runner next to it during a road trip in Northern CA.
The starter wiring on these trucks is a poor design. Yours being an automatic, it should not have the Starter Relay like the manual trucks do. You say your truck has a rusty bed? That bed looks to be in great shape for most here on Yotatech. I have done Rads fix for the manual trucks and never an issue since then. I have not worked on an automatic trucks starting system but Rad could probably get you thru that issue.
As I understand it, these trucks did not come to the states with AC installed. Most if not all of them were installed at the dealer. Your truck has the holes marked in the fire wall with little dimples. Two for the hoses to the compressor and one in the lower floor board for the drain hose. You would be best to find a parts truck with all of the pieces on it and move to yours. I have installed AC and it is not hard to do.
Update - I replaced the key switch and installed the relay. Thank you RAD4Runner for the great write up! I also have AC... for now. I took a chance and charged it up and much to my surprise, it blew cold air. After a week, it's dropped down to 20 psi so I have to chase down the leak. A couple of curious things came along with the AC, idle up function seems a little high and the compressor clutch never cycles off (pressure switch?). Without a tach, I don't know idle speed compared to idle up speed.
Good to know about the cranking. Most welcome.
I also suggest to inspect and clean the neutral safety switch because it had been subjected unnecessarily to high solenoid current.
...new jumper from battery to passenger side fuse panel...
OOPS, I just saw this ^^^^
That "jumper" is the fusible link wire (below).
Did you replace with the proper Fusible Link? If not, OK to run that way but NOT SAFE. I suggest you find replacement. Sorry I do not know exactly what gage to use. Summit Racing may be able to help. Folks there should know what gage is used for our trucks.
06-09-2017, 12:07 PM
Welcome to YotaTech!
