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LCE Adj Cam Gear

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Old 10-31-2009, 05:48 PM   #1
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LCE Adj Cam Gear

Was wondering if anyone here is using the lce adj cam gear with a carburated 22r. I'd like to see pics of what you did to the fuel cam. Also does anyone know how much block milling the cam gear cam adj for. ie 10 thousandths 20 thousandths etc. and how many degrees to move the cam gear for a referenced milling amount.
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Old 10-31-2009, 06:44 PM   #2
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Adjust the fuel cam? Even though moving the camshaft results in the cam lobe shifting, advancing the fuel lobe doesn't change net fuel delivery. What matters is the stroke of the fuel pump and advancing the lobe doesn't change how much fuel moves when the pump 'pumps'. The float lets fuel into the carb when necessary so as long as the pump supplies fuel when the carb needs it everything is fine.

As far as how much to adjust the cam to compensate for milling, that will depend a lot on the compression ratio acheived by milling. In general, the opinion is 3 degrees advance over stock results in the best setting, but like you've noticed, that can vary when the head is milled. Differing states of tune can require differing cam timings so that becomes a subjective setting and can only be acheived by experimentation.

Last edited by abecedarian; 10-31-2009 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:38 PM   #3
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to my knowledge when using the lce cam gear, the adjusting nuts on the gear interfere with the fuel pump cam. something about having to flip the nuts/bolts around and somehow modifying the fuel pump cam.


While I am thinking about it, milling the block/head retards cam timing correct?
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:46 PM   #4
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yup. milling the head makes the cam closer to the crank which in turn retards the cam timing since the chain doesn't shrink.
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:57 PM   #5
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That's what I thought, now how much does say 10 and 20 thousandths change the cam timing?

Also heres is the snippet from lce on the cam gear:

Adjustable cam gears can be used with mechanical fuel pumps by machining the concentric fuel pump drive to clear the 3 separate 10mm bolts on the adjustable cam gear. This is made easier by reversing the bolts in the cam gear.

I am thinking they mean machining to make part of the fuel cam smaller ??? If i had the cam gear i think i'd be able to figure it out, however, just wanted to know what i was getting myself into if i got the cam. I don't want to switch to an electric fuel pump on a carb setup.

I already have the block shaved 10 thousandths but may need more since I may have to have my rods all recut because of a problem after rebuild and spinning another rod bearing. This is so I can get the quench correct so I am able to run the 5 BTDC timing that EB recommended.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:02 PM   #6
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Instead of all this suppostition, I suggest getting the block and head together then dial the cam in with an adjustable cam gear, degree wheel, stops, etc.
Forget trying to assume things and wait until you know what you have.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:21 PM   #7
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I'm not trying to assume anything. If I were I would not be asking questions. I would be just doing things on my own and using trial and error. What I am trying to do is figure out if getting this cam gear is gonna be a required thing or not (I do not want to use a thicker head gasket or a shim as this will not allow me to 0 deck this block. If i have to get this block re-milled again (which I am almost certain I will) to compensate for cut rods in which I only had one before the rebuild (which I was not worried about 1 cyl that was not 0 decked), now I will have two in which I might as well have the other two cut to match, which will without a doubt throw off my quench that I had nearly 0 decked with the pistons from EB.

Also to be exact then I might as well buy my self a dyno for a weekend and have this thing dyno tuned using the cam gear as well. In which I don't have the time and budget for. All I want to do is get this thing as close as possible without having to do trial and error. Even with degreeing in the 268 cam from EB, this may or may not give best performance anyway.

I am not new to tuning, however I am new to this 22r and unsure how this thing responds to several things. Unlike alot of other people I have seen, I like to do as much research as possible on something before going head first into it.

Please do not respond if you cannot answer the questions I asked.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:28 PM   #8
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if you mill the head or block surface and do not use a thicker headgasket..then YES you will HAVE to have the adj. cam gear
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:49 PM   #9
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You are asking questions about how much the cam timing is affected by milling the head.
You are more familiar with your engine than any of us are, yet assume we can tell you something about your engine when you have more access to information about it than we do.
You are lucky we're not replying with things asking you how much the timing chain has stretched since it was first installed because that will affect cam timing and we have to take that into consideration as well in order to tell you how many degrees the cam needs to be advanced in order to compensate for 10mm milling.

Good luck.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:57 PM   #10
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Full rebuild, complete master kit from EB, new stock style complete head from EB 268 cam from EB. Everything new except rods, block and rocker assembly (new adjuster screws/nuts on rockers though). crank was new till that new bearing spun for whatever reason.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:14 PM   #11
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If you want the best overall performance, you degree in the cam. Otherwise you're stuck with chain stretch and mill work retarding the cam. Not that shifting the power band 500 or so RPM's up will make a big difference though since people seem to be afraid to rev over 4500 or so with the 22R/RE engines. You might have to feather the clutch a lil more than you're used to and maybe rev a bit higher. Since you didn't replace the rocker shafts, you might have enough wear there to nullify any cam degreeing you do anyways.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:22 PM   #12
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Doesn't have to be perfect, just a ball park figure is what I am looking for. I am thinking it's somewhere along the lines of 1 degree for every thousandth. I am sure someone on here has had the block and such milled etc and using the LCE gear which looks like its good for 10 degrees each way. Manual trans so i am not too too worried about raising the power band by 500. I think I am gonna be glad though that I went with the 268 cam.

Engine is also bored 20 over which should give me a little bit more bottom end.

As for the rocker shafts they felt pretty solid, no play at all from what I could tell. Pretty dang good if you ask me for 172,000 miles.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:22 PM   #13
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My understanding is that to use LCE's adjustable gear with a fuel pump, the pump drive lobe needs to modified. Even with the bolts turned around, a portion of it would hit bolt heads unless relieved. LCE's site has instructions, but unfortunately no pictures.

I noticed Putney's Machine sells adjustable cam gears. I don't know if they are LCE's or a different design. Are any other adjustable cam gears available? I've read about 3 position ones but haven't found any for sale.

xxxtreme22r, EB can probably advise at what point you're likely to need an adjustable gear. Please let us know what you find out and end up doing.

Last edited by flyingbrass; 10-31-2009 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:32 PM   #14
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The link for the instructions for the cam gear doesnt work returns a 404. I'd rather not go with just a 3 position.

I don't know of any other than LCE, but I'm still learning what is all available for the 22rs. Too bad I didn't have more experience with that 20r Celica I had in high school. Boy, I wish I still had that car. lol.

I know EB said don't go any more than 10 on the block mill. Which I didn't have to until this new problem.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:43 PM   #15
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http://www.lcengineering.com/Inst/1022003_1022009.htm has parts that 404, but the instructions show for me. All they say about use with a mechanical fuel pump is:
Quote:
Using an LC Engineering Performance Single or Double Adjustable Cam Gear is the only way to accurately degree the camshaft to its proper specifications. For Electric Fuel Pump applications, we recommend using the LC Pro Fuel Pump part # 1035045. It is possible to run a Manual Fuel Pump with an adjustable cam gear by doing the following: 1) Remove allen head bolts and turn them around in the cam gear (allen heads outward). 2) Mark and machine the fuel pump concentric drive to clear the allen head bolts used on the cam gear (machining the concentric drive too deep may cause the drive arm to fall into the machined slots where damage will occur). Note: If you do not use the fuel pump drive, you must space the distributor drive gear out the same thickness (0.90”) as the fuel pump concentric or damage will occur to the distributor drive gear.
Here's a picture of the gear.


Last edited by flyingbrass; 10-31-2009 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:46 PM   #16
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yup got that. Just hoping someone else with a carbed 22r has this gear installed. Not too many carbs on yotatech though. we will see.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:46 PM   #17
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looks to me like you can't compensate for more than .010
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:55 PM   #18
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ooops, what I meant to say earlier is 1 degree for every 10 thousandths not thousandth. So if i wind up having to go with another 10 off the block, that's 20 total for 2 degrees adv and then another 3 for the best cam advance. so 5 total.

P.S. is there any advantage to going positive deck on this? ie pistons above the block. doubt it. And I know not to go too far otherwise you wind up running into piston to cyl head casting clearance.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxtreme22r View Post
Full rebuild, complete master kit from EB, new stock style complete head from EB 268 cam from EB. Everything new except rods, block and rocker assembly (new adjuster screws/nuts on rockers though). crank was new till that new bearing spun for whatever reason.
Why don't you get a head shim to bring it back to stock height compensating for the milling? I got this with my block after it was done from the machinist who did the work it was milled .10 thousands off this brings it back to spec and was $20 bucks extra. And for the record my rebuild is identical to what it sounds like your doing except I have the L.C. E. Pro Street Head with the 268 from EB and the Master kit is EB's as well

Last edited by olharleyman; 10-31-2009 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:48 PM   #20
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I want to 0 deck it for quench reasons.
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22r, 22re, adjustable, advance, block, cam, comments, deck, fuel, gear, head, lce, machine, manually, pump, putneys, retard, retarding

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