gromsurf

Can a jumped chain change timing where it barely runs and or starts and create a problem with valve/piston collision?

So, it was slapping around and chatter for some time, and all the sudden upon start up the engine made a weird clunk-kathump sound, then quite, then would barely start with pumping the throttle. Then on restarting it sounded like it was out of time barely ran as it ran like doo doo! Chug, chug and died when release throttle. Then I tried to restart it and the engine was quite warm, it sounded like it was hitting a wall or something stopping it from continuing to crank forward like after 1 to 2 normal sounding turns. Now it won't start after running like a champ for 226,000 miles.

Checks i did next day: Hand cranked the main pulley and it turned freely with only occasional drag like it was compression tension. Next I pulled plugs out and key cranked to look for coolant shooting out and none present. Next compression check revealed #1 and #2 at 150 lbs., #3 and #4 at 160 lbs. Yet to do timing light, can that be done without starting it?

Things I'd like to do are replace pin-hole leaking radiator with Aluminum, brass again or have it recored? Timing chain kit, water pump, what else you guys think while i'm in the area? Do you need to remove head to do these repairs, I'm getting mixed responses from local shops. What about buying parts, OEM or after market? Keep hearing engbldr.com are these better than OEM? What about misc parts on Ebay?

Thanks in adance to you Yota-head pioneers

snobdds

It sounds like you've done everything except the thing you should do in this situtation...Remove the valve cover and check to see if you jumped time. That should be your first step...so do that and report back. You will want to see if the timing guides are still there. If they are then rotate the engine to TDC and see where your timing marks are...

Until then every response is just a shot in the dark.

gromsurf

So I removed the cover like you suggested today and to my surprise I found a few things I did not expect. First when turning the top gear to the dimpled markings TDC, I noted a link was broken in one place and that it also seemed to be binding and crooked. the chain got really tight when turning after looking really loose.

Secondly there was a wear mark, [not to bad] on the inside of the valve cover. Found some bits of wear marks on the back of the timing chain itself and some minimal metal shavings on the outer chain also, probably from where it was rubbing the inside of the cover. Also found black plastic pieces scattered about mostly smallish as I'm assuming the driverside timing guide is broken as it looks shorter than I've seen pictured elsewhere and my eyes and pics couldn't reveal, I tried to take pics but didn't tell. Also notice in the pics where the lower pulley mark is in relation to the "O" mark way off the mark and way before like several inches before and away from all the marks.

So what else could I have damaged? Should I remove the pan and pic up all those broken pieces/chunks of plastic? With the timing this far off could the valves hit the top of the piston?

Tried to post pics for you to see but it wouldn't let me for some reason. WHat did I do wrong here? I will try again here in a minute.

gromsurf

here are some more pics regarding TDC and lower pulley placement in relation to "o" mark.

By the way thank you so much for tech help!

snobdds

Good pictures.

Looks like you have a timing chain job ahead of you. You will probably need to drop the oil pan and get all the bits out of the oil strain so you don't kill your oil pressure. If you have the time, I would highly reccommend doing your head gasket as well. You can get a "top grind kit" for about $100 through toyotapartseast.com and it will have all the gaskets you need to seal up the top end again. Well worth it. Then you know your truck is good for another 100K miles.

Lots of good threads on hear about that job if you search. 92Toy has a good write up if you search his name.

Keep us posted.

gromsurf

so thought I'd get back to you on the jumped timing chain issue. It indeed looks off the mark, not sure how to determine how many teeth it jumped or how it got so far off but if you look at the pics you will see the mark on pulley, the "O" mark and great distance between the two. Other issues with the chain itself. I think the guide is definitely broken, looks like the upper portion broke and slid down behind as its stuck behind itself on the same side, I also found other fragments scattered about. So I will remove the oil pan and clear out debris, and when doing the new chain some say remove the head gasket and some say if your careful of "lucky" you won't need too. I'd rather not if I don't have to due to time restraints, but if it will ensure a longer life may be worth the extra time and money, what do you think? DO you think it's possible the valves and pistons collided with such way off the mark timing? could possible a valve or two gotten bent? I have a local shop guy screaming, just rebuild the whole darn motor! He says to to the timing chain he takes the motor out, really? Why for?

What other components, housings and such should be done while in and around the area? My brass radiator has a few pin hole leaks should I have it pressure tested, repaired/cored or buy new or aluminum, what's the best in terms of cooling ability as I hear different stories from different peps.

By the way thanks so much for all your input helps to brainstorm with someone that has the experience and know how.

Cheers!

snobdds

Well, 22re's are so easy to work on...I can pull the entire motor out in a morning. Then I have it on a stand and can do everything right. So he may be pumping you full of hot air, but I do like to remove the motor. It makes it easy to do the oil pan, timing chain and head gasket. Then you can see how your clutch is and how the rear main seal is doing.

I have pulled the motor out and had it back in ready to go in a weekend. But I have done it a few time and I prefer that method.

The problem with not doing the head gasket at the same time is sealing up the joint between the top of the timing chain cover and the bottom of the head. More often than not, the end of the head gasket will get pinched and will forever leak. Then your back in there doing it again.

Do some searching and find out what you want to do. The FSM considers the head gasket a part of the timing chain R&R.