First half tank run thru with time set at 15*. Around town mileage improved by over 1 mpg to 14.1. Was getting about 12.8. I'm pretty stoked, since it's never gotten close to that around town during the 2 1/2 yrs I've owned it. Worrst was just over 10 mpg, last summer.

More later after a road trip.

Mike in AR

 

... You also need a good memory since every engine component with more than 3 bolts, every bolt is a different length!!!!

 

So, I'm sitting here pondering how it's possible that my 3VZE is running better than it's ever run with the timing set at what is approx. 22* BTDC.

I tried 13* BTDC, nice.

Then 16* BTDC, WHOA now that's what I'm talkin' about.

Thought I'd stop fiddlin' when I start hearin' some pinging or notice anything odd.

Arrived at 22* BTDC, completely ping free. I can tell you for sure that I'm getting the most MPG that I've ever got out of my 217,000 mile old engine. And much better acceleration/torque, esp. low end.

This is with solid core spark plug wires(you say "NoNo", I say "yes...yes"), NGK V-Power plugs, 3-way Cat(2/3 hollowed out, so now 1-way super-flow), no muffler, no EGR, intake silencer blocked off, on 87 octane fuel.

That's all, rest is stock AFAIK anyway.

ECU says "all's well".

When do you think it should start pinging, ever? Have I gone far enough? Am I crazy?

Don't answer that last one, it's fairly obvious.

 

What kinda mpg mudhippy?

 

I started @ around 17-19 mpg with 10* BTDC.

I didn't really notice any big mpg gain at 13* BTDC, but felt more engine responsiveness.

I did notice a good gain in mpg at 16* BTDC, say like in the 18-20 mpg range then and even more low end torque and quickened response.

I've just had a few days at 22* BTDC to do some running around on my usual routes. As of today I have concluded I must be getting somewhere along the lines of 19-22 mpg at least. And the power is....well...TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!!! Good bye 3.slow.....0-35 miles per hour no longer an all day ordeal.

I'm starting to wonder if a PO did work to this engine I'm unaware of. And why do does it start to pull so hard at around 5000 rpm, like a turbo's kickin' in? It's always been like this even with stock timing, though. Just the exhaust mods(hollowed out cat, no muffler)maybe?

AND...

How is all this possible with 87 OCTANE FUEL?

Pushing 35" tires with stock(4.30)gearing?

I've lost it surely...or have I not?

 

Sounds like you found the sweetspot. 3.0 or 22re tho?

Sounds like overall the timing is retarded in our yotas.

 

3VZE, I could go farther, say 25* maybe...why never with the pinging? I can't even make it ping starting from a stop in 3rd gear. It wants to lug it's way up to idle speed or die. You know what I mean? Wierd...

Used to ping alot under load with stock timing and stock spark plug wires, with the spark plugs gapped about .010" too much. (Like that when I bought it.) Never has pinged once with the solid core wires and correct plug gap at any setting/load condition.

 

I'm puzzled on where to start off my timing belt. I'm working on 3vze engine. It was originally set 5* BTDC, but the FSM says set to 0. So should I follow FSM or go back to the way it was or set to like 15* BTDC on a new timing belt install?

 

my first vehicle had a 3vze in it. i found out quickly that it was probably one of the worst engines to learn on. or maybe one of the worst engines of toyota history. PITA is an understatement. it is pretty reliable though, i'll give it that. i don't want to take it very far out of cell phone range

 

Wait a sec...back the truck up. I be talkin' about ignition timing advance/retard. You be talkin' about lining up your crankshaft and your camshafts so your valves open and close at the right time. That's all dependent on the same TDC, 0* reference point. I think it's called valve timing, anyway you don't want it off AT ALL.

How on Earth did your engine run with the cams off 5*? Never mind...it doesn't matter(?). What does matter is that you go by the FSM on that one and have everything lined up at the marks on the cams and 0*(TDC)on the crankshaft with the belt on.

It's possible mine is a "special case". But I have nothing but good things to say about it thus far. ~37,000 miles of PURE JOY! She loves me, I just know she does...just as much as I love her.

 

I may have to play with my timing a bit now then. I am at 10* BTDC, I am going to try 15* maybe even 20*

 

Interesting story. When I bought my 4-runner (3.0) It had a blown head gasket and 5 valves that were not sealing on the passenger side. This was due to poor belt tightening when the PO re built the heads. The cam sprocket had jumped 2-3 teeth off on that head. And it still ran. I test drove it and thought, man this thing runs horrible. After the rebuild was complete I jumped in it and realized that it ran nearly the same. It was just slow. There was a low idle misfire. After 2500 rpm the engine worked like clockwork. Sorry for deviating off topic. I need a timing light. Mine is set by ear right now. Thus far 19 MPG!!!!

 

Yeah, I'd say try like 14-15*. Take it for a spin, if it pings and/or hesitates real bad under acceleration. Back it off a touch at a time.

If not, I guess bump it up 'till it does.

All your ingition stuff needs to be up to par, plugs clean and gapped .031" works best for me(not sure how much solid core wires get ya, supposedly not alot, but could be...I like 'em, could fry your electronics with 'em too supposedly, but nothing gone wrong electronically for more than a year in my 88 EFI more than passes my test). At least that's what seems to be the best way to avoid pinging in my 3VZE(only pinged for me with toasted spark plugs gapped way too far, .042" or so, and stock high-resistance wires at 10* BTDC, but that could've been just the plugs there, 'cause the wires weren't "bad"...).

 

With all of this advancing timing and stuff, don't you guys run higher octane fuel? I know that it makes it safer to run higher octane with advanced ignition timing, as my Honda is set up as so. It does make a diffrence in mileage and power. I've wanted to try this on my truck also, but am too cheap to fork over the extra cash for higher octane gas, especially since my truck uses way more gas than my Honda.

So what the "limit" to how far you can advance your timing while running cheap-o 87 octane gas?

 

you know, this is one thing i have no idea about. how in the hell do you adjust the timing??? and how do you know when your at TDC? oh, and for the record.. i turned off my computer programmer, and am getting about 22mpg. on cheap 87 gas. well, not cheap, since i use chevron, but still. you get my drift.

 

i have a timing light, and the timing seems to be a little shaky, but not bad.

 

What do you mean......"turned off your computer programmer"?

 

i have a little racing ECU reprogrammer. you DO notice a big difference in performance, but it also eats your gas

 

What brand/model?

Frank

 

I have a 22R/e, but all this talk about timing got me wondering. I have had a constant ping at all engine speeds. I kept trying to play it off as a valve rattle, or timing chain because of how bad it was. This ping sounded horrible, so I thought my timing chain was rattling, I had an exhaust leak, or the valves were toast, because it was such a loud noise. I've only heard pinging on two other vehicles and this ping sounded very different, but yesterday I accepted the inevitable and decided to check out this pinging problem.

I bought a Craftsman timing light from Sears. I brought it home and just hooked it up a few minutes ago to check the timing on my truck. Well, ping problem solved. Timing was at 3 ATDC... Yeah, AFTER TOP DEAD CENTER. Not sure how it got like this , but I turned it back to the stock 5 BTDC and she purrs. Can't even imagine how much of a power loss I was having with that much of a timing retard. Would this much of a retard explain why I had such good fuel mileage (running super lean)? I have to leave later today with a nice highway cruise and some hills, hopefully I'll pick up some ponies!