F0RSAKEN

So I was reading phorensic's thread on advancing timing and how he stated that he got more power due to it. Well, I got all clever on my way to class today and decided to give it a try sans timing light.

I loosened the 12mm bolt that holds the distributor in place, and rotated it roughly 1/8 of an inch clockwise, and re-tightened the bolt. Started the truck and it ran a little more smoothly, let it warm up a bit, then shut it down.

Got ready to leave for class, and started it up, drove off. Hit the highway, and immediately noticed that it was running much smoother. As a matter of fact, I had a pretty bad hesitation, and it was all but gone after the timing adjust. As for power...didnt notice that much of a difference, but there was some more on tap (accelerated up a hill in 5th on the freeway that I usually lose speed on).

Anyway, just thought you all might be interested in that.

surf4runner

retard

j/k

miketerrizzi

well im kinda of mad at you,

you randomly adjusted your timing. this is going to lead other to do the same and mess there car up. I was reading all the advanced timing thread also, but i purchased a timing light, jumped the T and E on the diagontic port and advanced my timing by 6.5 deg.

You should prob figure out how far you advanced it. I have only been driving around for a couple of day so i cant really state the diffrence in MPG and power. and No materr the small increase in base timing, you really wont notice any diffrence driving it, its just moving tq curve slightly.

F0RSAKEN

I didnt post that for a power claim, I was more interested in the fact that it almost totally erradicated my low rpm/ part throttle hesitation problem. That to me, is more important than any meager power improvement it may have made.

kyle_22r

if it was doggy, the timing may have been retarded for some reason. when i did my timing chain/hg job on my 22R-E, i timed it by ear when i reassembled it, and while it ran well, it was noticeably doggier. put the timing light on it, and it was 5* retarded from the factory position.

Toysrme

You really, really need to use a timing light.
I had someone do a 3vz-fe by hand, and it wound up being 24*btdc.
I set mine at one point without a light, after playing with cam timing & to my dismay had the timing around 40*btdc.


The moral is that you really, really, *really* need to use a timing light.

lftd_86_yota

Yeah, toysrme is right. you need a timing light bad. if you do it by ear, you have no clue what's going on. But it doesn't hurt if you advance your timing a couple 3 degrees. it gives it a little more pep and slightly better fuel miealge, anyone agree?

regularguy412

I bit the bullet and advanced the time on my 3.0 today. Found my old timing light and the darn thing actually worked! So I toped off ( 6 gallons ) with some 93 octane hi-test to help increase the average rating of the regular (87 octane) that I've been running. I jumpered the TE1 and E1 terminals and took it up to 15* BTDC . Pinging is practically nonexistent and the driveability increase is noticeable in the seat of the pants. I'm holding my breath regarding fuel mileage. I'll run a few tanks of midgrade through it , both in town and highway, to see if any improvment.

Thanks for sharing this information. I'll keep ya posted

Mike in AR

phorensic

Well, now that's a few people at 15* BTDC. Anyone care to try 20*BTDC with premium? I'd like to know the results of 15* vs 20*. With my turbo project so close I can taste it, it's not really worth my while to test it out.

phorensic

Pinging was completely nonexistant on my motor at all the settings I tried. Either we haven't pushed the limits of advance, yet, or the knock sensor is faster than my ears.

Flamedx4

Y'all with your newfangled gadgets. Back in the day we used to set plug gap and point gap (you can look up "distributor breaker points" in ancient dust covered books) with a matchbook cover. Used to set timing by opening the door. Adjust the distributor until the door shake smoothed out. Then rap the throttle and back off the timing till any ping or hesitation juuust goes away.
My studious mechanic-geek buddy used to come behind me (muttering and shaking his head) and pull and check my plugs then check my timing with his light. Then he'd walk away (muttering and shaking his head) - it was perfect, every time!

Toysrme

Flamed LoL! That's really not a good way to do that anymore. Most of the time when you put yourself in diagnostics mode, you can generally get away with massive timing increases.
For most Toyota's, stock timing out of diag mode warm & idling can fluctuate up to 18-22*btdc. Until you were moving, you'd never have the faintest idea if the base timing was 10*btdc (stock) or 30* btdc!

regularguy412

There may be a bit more carbon buildup in my cylinders causing a little preignition. Or could be just the difference in fuels/ atmospheric pressure, etc. The small amount of preigntion that does occur, only happens for less than 1/2 second. It does not occur at WOT, or even 3/4 throttle. Gonna run a couple more tanks thru and see how it goes. Honestly, I was getting about the same small amount of preignition prior to upping the static time at the distributor.

The good news: Have only driven it about 60 miles around town the last couple days. But it 'appears' that the fuel gauge is NOT heading toward 'E' quite as fast. We'll see.

Mike in AR

DH6twinotter

I used to run mine at 12* btdc, but it pinged like crazy. I turned it down to 10*, and it doesn't ping quite as bad, but still does. I certainly was more peppy at 12* though. Once i get my pinging issue figured out, I'm going to try and put it back to 12* or maybe 15*.

Come to think of it, I think my best MPG was back when I had the timing set at 12*.

runethechamp

So how do you recognize pinging. Is it easy to pick up?

snap-on

I still cant comprehend how the computer adjusts the timming on a 3vze.

Someone care to explane it or got a link?

regularguy412

You can hear it. Sounds like someone dropped a steel marble down into a running blender . (rattle, rattle , rattle ) Usually it's intermittent and not very loud.

If it gets loud enough to sound like someone hitting a 2x4 with a hammer,, THAT'S detonation. Parts start breaking with too much of that (holes in pistons, broken and eroded spark plug electrodes, broken valves, etc. )

Mike in AR

Flamedx4

Yeah I know I know. A buddy at work was just lamenting about how simple things used to be and now they're all computerized and stuff.... I pointed out to him a couple of stories - I used to do a complete tuneup every other oil change back in the 70s- that included dinking with the carburetor. You had to if you wanted it to keep running smooth. But my 85 4Runner (not even great technology now) never had one single engine adjustment EVER! in 240k miles! I took it in for the required services while under warranty, and I took it in once at about 75k, and neither time did anything need done, no valves adjusted no timing touched, nothing. Then it never got another wrench layed on it (for tune purposes) except for the plugs and rotor/cap. Sure, I had to replace a water pump once and an oil pump once, but those wore out, they didn't need "tuned."

The other story is my F150 5.4. At 90,000 miles, it has never had one single adjustment made. Air filter/oil& filter - that's it. Not even plugs. It still runs dead perfect, dead smooth, and the mpg has not changed since new. (I am dreading the 100k plug change though - the plugs are hidden under the plug&coil arrangement and under the fuel rails, plus they are mostly under the firewall/cowl. Not gonna be fun!)

Modern computerized technology, clean burning engines, low friction internals, etc are really nice. And fuel injection - I will never own another carb. Period.

tc

I would tune my 22R (Weber 32/36) by ear only, and kept it running perfect. Like Flamed said, sometimes my dad wouldn't believe me and check with the timing light and it would be perfect. I swear you could fix ANYTHING on that motor with a flat screwdriver, 10mm and 12mm wrenches, and a hammer.

Not so with my 3.0 .... when it needs help it's a PITA. Fortunately, the computer keeps it from needing too much help...

celica

Yah, you need a 14mm & a philips screwdriver as well