Have you ever driven a SAS'd rig?

 

if you do he Pro Comp, i assume you have to do Stage 1 first? or can you just go to Stage 2? they really destroy vehicles in this competition, i mean one guy brought a Jeep Wrangler, dual cases, 6 inch lift, crawlinggears, front rear lockers, SFA, 37" Super Swampers, real top of the line jeep, had a chevy 384? small block, and th guy had been to the last 20 competitions but with an old beater, he did not make it past i think stage 3 out of 10. he had to replace pretty much anything that costs alot. i dotn think i will do that one, just the lesser course they have with a lift, and if i go big enough lift, i will want bigger tires of course, so if i go with a 4" pro comp stage 2,i can put on 35s????

 

If you actually want to use/abuse your truck in a competition, with IFS, you need to think outside of bracketlifts.

Stock is an option, with bigger tires.

I would consider, A Total Chaos caddy kit., The cheapest one they make. Throw on some thicker tosrion bars, and some nitrogen charged shocks (Duals would be nice). And get a set of T-100 axles. For shock hoops, you can make them, or get the downey hoop.

If you don't crank in a lot of lift, your steering should hold up pretty well.

For the back, get a set of Downey 3" lift springs and a set of good wheel spacers.

To me that is a budget lift.

But, don't forget, lift and tires are only a small part of the equation, it's gonna suck without propper gearing and a locker.

 

I have heard that OME suspensions systems are pretty killer and last a long long time.

Never owned one myself but am thinking about going with at least their rear springs and their shocks.

 

im not looking toabuse my truck, i want to be able to go off roading anywhere, i have a big list of things to buy, butshould i do a IFS or SAS, and if SAS is really only good for slow rock crawling, then i am going IFS, and maybe pro comp stage 2

 

SAS is not for just rock crawling!!! That is an pre-concieved notion that is not true. I had my truck SAS'd and it drove awesome on the street at any speeds and off road. I daily drove my truck 40 miles to and from work everyday (75 - 80mph) , and it was our traveling/vacation vehicle too (1000 mile trips or more). The truck drove awesome, better than when I had the IFS bracket lift. The bracket lift was a waste of my money IMHO.
Like I said previously you can do get some bigger tires on you vehicle with your stock suspension and spend the money on gears and lockers. Believe it or not you can do more with a slightly bigger tire and lockers than most people can do with just a lift and bigger tires. The key here is traction not height. PM "TC" and have him send you some pictures or vids of the stuff that he has done with his 4runner. He went through some nasty stuff here in Ohio and the pictures and vids I have seen of him in Colorado are awesome. His 4runner is pure testament that a stock vehicle set up properly ie lockers, slightly bigger tires can do amazing things.

I am not trying to talk you out of doing an SAS though. It is an awesome way to go, but it is not simple and easy to set up properly to drive it the way I did. You can do a cheaper SAS and use it off road very reliably only. I played with different springs, shocks, gears, axle locations, driveshafts etc..... until I got it the way I wanted it to be on road and off road. It was not cheap. So with you wanting to spend $1000 - $1500 and assuming that is just for parts, get some bigger tires, gears, and lockers. Your truck won't have that "awesome lifted look" going this route, but by your own words that was not what you were looking for.

 

Pay attention to this guy and how he set up his vehicle. He may look funny and have weird friends but he knows what he is talking about for the most part and he does have some pretty smart (and beautiful in some cases ) friends with some pretty awesome rigs. Now if I can just convince Jessica Rabbit to take that damn dress off....

 

Yup, so many people just HAVE to lift their vehicle with no clue as to why (much less how to do it correctly) other than the fact that "I get hung up too often".
Also everyone, so it seems, just has to SAS their rig, again, with no real reason on why (other than every Billy, Joe, and Bob told then it's the only way to go) or how (at least how to do it correctly).
After all that, they have a vehicle sitting way high up in the air, a super high COG, especially after they throw their spare up on the roof.
Now they have a vehicle, that, in the big whelm of things, performs relatively poorly, but they simply don't know it.

They have a "flippy floppy":




Look at the photo of the Toyota that I posted under the shorty hi-lift thread.

To most people this appears to be an awesome performing vehicle. Tons of flex. All sorts of expensive components. Sexy, bling looking shocks, etc.
In reality this vehicle performed really, really poorly on the couple of trails that he went to with us. Much, much, much "smaller" vehicles simply drove all over and around him. He had a lot of trouble on obstacles (mostly relative steep climbs, descents, and off camber areas (we play in the big rocks) that all the other vehicles simply breezed through.
In the end, the end of the last trail that he did with us and, literally, the last time that Dan and I saw him, he broke a birf while trying to turn (kinda sharp) on a perfectly flat granite slab toward the end of the trail.




Fred

 

Several SAS's rigs on the trails are hack jobs, but done right they can suit their intended purpose. You don't see many IFS truck winning rock crawling competitions.
There are a ton of people on this forum and others that wheel IFS rigs well and reliably for years. Just fix what you break like you would a SA truck.

Just curious what kind of truck FredTJ has....

 

'95 4Runner, 3.0, auto.
Relative new to the Toyota world, but years ago had an '84 4x4 truck, before I knew what I had

I come from a Jeep background, where I had a beautifully built up TJ ('98) and we wheeled some of the most extreme trails here in S. AZ.

A few relatively simply mods (plus armor of course ), will get me back on most of those same trails. All except the most extreme of 'em.
I have tons of photos, some of which I've posted on some of the various forums here as examples of various points that were being made.




Fred

 

ok, now i am swinging towards a SFA, for the rear should i go leafs or stick with coils, coils for smooth ride, leafs for a fun bouncy ride, i like driving in my ford, it is just so crazy harsh it is fun! i like it, but it is too stiff, my Yota wont be that stiff if i do a SAS. can anyone recommend where i can get a GOOD-GREAT SAS kit with everything i need minus an axle and locker diff for under $2,000us and a cheap but good-great rear leaf kit if nessesary or jus bigger springs.

 

also, im such a noob, but i cant keep that same front diff if i do a SAS? o do i change it when i get a ARB locking diff for what ever axle i buy? also, when i get that ARB rear selectable locker, does that replace the WHOLE rear diff, or does it just fit inside on something? i know, total noob, but i've never done that before. also, if i do a 3-4" lift SAS, what size tires will fit, 35"x12.5". and will i have tochange my wheels? or can i stick with stock, if i do have to change, are there ANY Toyota ones that will fit, like the FJ TRD wheels?

 

I hate to break it to you but if you want a quality coil front, leaf rear you're going to be spending a bit more than $2k for everything done right. And assuming you are asking questions like this:
You will probably be needing some help putting part together and fabricating. After all is said and done I will be about $6k into the front for 3 link just in parts. I also have a leaf SA truck, even that was about $4k in parts. You could probably put something together for a little over $2k leaf, minus the chromo shafts, CTMs, ARB, etc. Leafs are fine in the rear, the rear isn't the money pit!

If all you want are 33s for the purpose of riding better on a washboard road and occasional fun wheeling, I'd look into LT or very inexpensive suspension lift. Whatever you do it's in your best interests, both financialy and personally, to do it right the first time. I think you should research the different types of lifts, true costs, and purpose prior to spending any money. But just my 2cents.

 

If you are going to SAS your rig you have a lot of research to do.

 

thats why i am gad to be a member of Yotatech, i can do it all in one place. im looking at somthing like 33x12 or 35x10 OR 12 super swampers or Pro Comp, if i can, i want coils all round, no leafs, is there a companythat makes that, a SAS with coils instead of leafs? if not, how much mor would i be looking at? i might just have togo with leafs all round. i cant thank you enough for all this information you are giving me, it is a GREAT help!

 

blown4runner96,i want to do things right the FIRST time if possible, i cnt afford to ake any mistakes down here in Belize, when i drive back to Canada next year, i will be making stops through-ou the USA to pick-up the stuff i need, install it there and drive back here ( no duty ) but i have a HUGE list of things i am going to buy besides a SAS kit, so i think my next item is a snorkel, then i am saving forthe SAS kit.

 

x2

I would recommend getting some 33x10.50's and locking the rear first, getting some more experience for what you need, and doing more research on the various options. You haven't spent a dime on anything that will get repaced if you do a SAS, but will DRAMATICALLY improve the capabilities of the truck (probably 75% of what you would have with a locked front/rear SAS rig)

 

a lot more....
http://www.offroadsolutions.com/products/suspension.htm

 

FWIW: I bought myself a 96 T100 (note its identical in design besides size and body to the 86-95 trucks) not to long ago with the intention of throwing a lift kit on by a popular maker asap. What happened was I found out a heck of alot of info from here, 4x4wire, and other forums and changed my mind and also reduced the cost phenomenally.

It leads to 3 schools of thought:

1.You need to put a SFA up front, its apparently the king in offroading and will get you anywhere. Ok, I can dig that. But, SAS means you must acquire the axle and parts, thats about a grand if you know how to do it yourself and can find parts cheap or fab your own. Then you need to rip out the IFS and fab the SAS in there, this isnt a simple thing to do for most and even though i can weld and am pretty mechanically inclined I wont touch it without help from at least a mechanic friend or a 4x4 shop.

So once you have the parts you throughly researched and got it on there then what? Dont think right away its gonna be perfect, I am sure you will need to tweak it and change stuff out for other parts, etc.

2. Lift the IFS:
2a. With a lift kit made by procomp, superlift, rough country, etc. While this works it creates other issues. One is merely cost, its not cheap at all and again unless your a gearhead your not gonna be doing it yourself without some help. Once you lift it you find out your differential angle up front is causing undue stress to your cv joints and the boots tear. Around back you find out those lift blocks cause your axle to shear itself apart later on when wheeling (aka rip off from the frame) or they crack and thats bad. Then you find out that the bracket lift isnt as strong as you hoped and your cracking idler arms and breaking other stuff.

2b.You research it all out and figure out what others are using,w hat kind of setup you need and you slowly create a parts/build list. I found out instead of bothering with a whole lift kit (which would cost me about a grand) that I could buy ball joint spacers, a front differential drop, a rear add a leaf and a longer shackle and I could lift the truck up 4" or so. Add a small body lift and voila you got clearance for 33's and maybe 35's on IFS, you have flex and will travel. Add in some lockers, armor and other goodies and your golden. Wheel the piss outta this till the IFS (if it even does) wears out so badly you then SAS. Then you sell the other stuff you dont need for IFS and you make some cash back and by then you have wheeled alot, made soem buddies who can help you SAS if youwant to.

3. Add bigger tires,lockers and armor and wheel stock
TC proves this time and time again and it does work. It isnt for everyone but he proved the IFS is tough enough and can go places a SFA can go.

 

The internet is a great research tool, just remember that everyone's 2 cents are jaded by their perception. Do some unbias research and ultimately make the decision for youself. There are people out there who swear by stock, swear by drop lifts, swear by LT, swear by SFA... and many of them will be the first to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your rig. YT has some good tech info, but if you want some good swap info try here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...isplay.php?f=7
I know no ones really mentioned LT (Long Travel) research this too, just so you know the other options:
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...play.php?f=186
and some knowledgable friend's websites:
http://www.tacodab.com/
http://www.toy4x4.net/
The last two links are more Tacoma oriented, but it will give you an idea of what you are getting into in the event you decide to do the swap. You can do coil suspension front and rear. Depends on how much you want to drop into it and what intentions are met by doing so. I'm doing a 3 link set up in the front with a Waggy D44, the rear is already set up with Chevy leafs, etc, and I am already running 35s. I am doing the swap because the type of off roading I enjoy is centered around rock crawling. You have a long road of research, etc to overcome. Don't get too impatient, it could cost you thousands. Good luck...