Erik Beeman

500hp out of a 22RE is doable. It's all about running a custom ECU that can handle it (obviously nothing Toyota offers would handle that), and it would obviously have to be a boosted motor. With enough boost and fuel, you can get crazy numbers from any motor. The 22RE is in fact very similar the the Mitsubishi G54B, which my buddy runs. It's a 2.6L 4 banger, and he is currently @ 400HP +/- on moderatly low boost and small turbo. It's all about airflow, how much you can get into the motor, and how fast you can get it out.

Money is a big factor when trying to build up a 22RE, because like everyone else has mentioned, you can take that same amount of money and buy a different motor that has 3 times the power....but all in all, all said and done, you can make a 22RE have as much power as you want!

Dirt Driver

I have been hanging around the 22RTE-trucks.com forum and I have seen some tall talk and even mention of using a GT35 turbo, but not much actually happening over 250rwhp on pump gas. The saving grace is that they make at least that much torque as well. I don't know if it's the tuning, low redline, or what, but it seems like the 22R_ loses tolerance for pump gas around that output range.

bxlt

The biggest problem here is that some of the parts may not exists. Like forged cranks and what not (no idea I've never looked 110-150 hp is enough for what I want)

As for the idea of a 500hp 22re I think it sounds cool if you wanted to drag race. I think getting that much power out of a 4cylinder limits the number of miles you can drive it at a time to about 1/4 There are a lot of racing classes where getting 500hp out of a 4cylinder can have a lot of advantages not to mention the weight savings you would have over a heavy V8 but nobody would think it was going to be cheap.

As for the electric I think with current battery technology the weight might be prohibitive. I know there are some drag cars that are electric and to be honest I know very little about them.

Finally as to what abecedarian said I have for a long time wondered why there aren't diesel hybrids or diesel electrics like trains. If a train can move that mass a efficiently as they do what could say a 2cylinder diesel electric move the average family car (sorry off topic but food for thought )

Erik Beeman

Yes, and this happens on all motors. The solution is Water Methanol injection. Buddy of mine made 567hp on a GT37 in his VR6 and that was on a fully built motor running 102 octane race gas. Blew that motor, and now he is on a stock block (all stock internals), which on top of that it was a junkyard motor, he installed his WMI, same turbo, and made 548hp on 91 octane. Yeah, you can bolt on a GT35 onto these 4 cylinders, but that bugger ain't gonna spool anything until a bagillion RPM. Not being a dick or douche, but have you ever held a GT35 or 37+ in your hands? It's F'n HUGE! I was offered to run my buddies GT37 on my RE when he goes to a 40, but these little (or big I should say) 4 cylinders just arent meant to be boosted that much from a big turbo, I gladly said no!



Here is a very good topic of the 22RE, boosting it, building it, and alot of random information about the 20R head, too. :thumbsup:
http://www.toysport.com/technical%20...tech_notes.htm


The 22RE crank is forged, the bottom ends are bullet proof on these motors.

bxlt

Thanks didn't know that. I do however know these are bullet proof bottom ends as I was able to drive mine about 50 miles with a very bad rod knock but that was on a 22re with a header so about 120hp-ish so bumping it up to 500+ might over extend the factory parts. If I were looking to build one to that level of HP like I said before I think I would only be driving it about a 1/4 of a mile at a time

Erik Beeman

You are correct. The factory crankshaft is about the only thing that I would trust, even up to 500. Everything else would be toast. , I expect to blow up my cast pistons just @ 200hp. We'll see.

86Toyrunna

where there is money there is parts. If you are serious enough to build a fire breathing 22re and need "go fast" parts there are still a handfull of true speed shops out there that the guys workin on the floor are not just brain dead parts changers. generaly guys in these shops have the know-how, or know a "old friend" who has the tanlent and tooling to build/make custom cranks, cams and other goodies you cant find in a catalogue. where there is a will there is a way. to my oppionion it would be a heck of alot cooler to see a 500+ hp 22RE then a 500hp chevy on the trail or on the street. for me half the point of building a rig is the "shock and awe" factor you get when people see what you have done. I think that with the combination of full aftermarket fuel management system, ignition system, a well massaged Head, a properly put-to-geather bottom end, and some form of forced induction i dont see why 500hp would be hard to attain and still be fairly reliable.

a friend i work with has a air cooled 2300+cc v-dub motor in his sandrail that was dyno'd at like 220hp that hes been running for like 3 years now. he is currently going back through it and is looking to be running around 235-240hp.... so this makes me think that if this is possible from a N/A air cooled VW motor, why not 500 out of a 22re

Dirt Driver

1.) Whatever doesn't exist can be designed and built. Obviously budgets can get out of hand that way, but the biggest "special" items I can think of for a 22R_ are the rods and pistons and those are available OTS. Even if the stock crank was just cast and not forged, I would still expect it to hold over 500hp. The main caps would probably need straps or a girdle. The straps would be fairly easy to have made.

2.) I think the reasoning behind diesel-electric trains is that they are so big and heavy and have such long takeoff distances that a mechanical clutch system would be impractical. The motors allows for gradual speedup without nuking anything. As for a diesel-electric car, remember that the more times energy changes form, the more of it is lost to inefficiencies.

There is also the option of running E85. Staged methanol injection would be pretty easy with a standalone. Yeah, I have seen a GT35 which is why I raised an eyebrow when somebody mentioned using one on a 22RTE. OTOH, there is guy on turboford.org that put compound turbos(a Holset HX35 and an SC61 or something ridiculous) on a stock 2.3T shortblock and managed to get 30psi at 2500rpm. He also compressed one of the rods by about 0.100".

Erik Beeman

That tells me his rods weren't up to par. He had the bottom end for the power, had the pistons for the power, but didnt do the rods....

Dirt Driver

Not many would be, IMO. There again, they were factory '83-89 2.3 rods and heavy stock forged TRW pistons. Both have gone as high as 575rwhp, but at a higher rpm, of course. NA engines have the same rods and cast crank, believe it or not.

The difference with a 22R_ is that the block is skirted. That leaves potential for a big girdle tied to the pan rails, which could make the bottom end nearly indestructible. That is, if it's even necessary.

22RUCRAZY

sounds like you need to just put two 22re s in your rig and it would be cheaper and easier

Dirt Driver

Those pictures are too small to really tell what's going on.

Blk63vette

Hello
Back in the day....80's I wanted to get at least 375hp out of my 1969 Camaro SS 396 4spd..I had a very tired 396 block told the guy what I wanted..he pointed at the sign...And it said..."Speed cost Money..How Fast you want to go?"...

Almost anything is possible just depends on how much money you go to spend..

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

I think with enough money you can reinvent the wheel. If a 500hp 22re was readily availible, the reliablity of it would be suspect for my wheeling/DD use, except if all your trips are 1/4mile. Plus 500hp means more beefy: tranny, t-cases, axles. Really this is a workhorse engine by design that is very reliable.

The reason this isn't such a popular topic among the off road croud is because gears, suspension, and lockers get you over obsticles. Add in lg amounts of Hp and torque and things break. If you don't believe me look at the jeep croud.

Perhaps you should look at stroking the motor with induction, and better head flow. Might get you closer to you target number.

Dirt Driver

Well yeah, a 500hp 2.4L would be awful for a situation where a linear powerband is needed. It probably wouldn't make much over 125hp until the boost came on, at which point the output would increase 400% and very abruptly. I was thinking it would be more useful for something like a desert racer/prerunner type deal, not rock crawling.

iamsuperbleeder

lmao, could you imaging a sudden 400% power increase while trying to feather the throttle up onto a rock... you'd break so much stuff, lol

Dirt Driver

If you want a tough powerband, look at BMW's turbo F1 engines from 1986. They were using a 1.5L four cylinder design(and a production block with some) capable of ~800-1000hp during a race and 1200-1400+hp in qualification. I have seen dyno graphs of restored engines and the power literally quadruples from ~200hp to 800+ in a 2000rpm window.

iamsuperbleeder

I burn up so many tires...

I don't care how experienced you are, that's a hard jump in HP to handle...

jimep

there are 2 problems with the 22re getting big horsepower. 1. only 2 valves per cylinder -Can't get the air and fuel in and burnt gasses out fast enough. and 2 they are designed more for torque. the cranks have a long throw so they can't get the high RPMs either. anything over 6,500 is almost impossible. I'll be happy if iIm pushing over 200 hp in my 22rte. 10 lbs boost. intercooled, ct 26 turbo, 370 injectors, doa c270 cam, engnbldr RE head w/os valves, and more. almost $2,000 in parts and machine work alone. I did the assembly myself to keep it as cheap as possible.

Magnusian

Considering both modern day recycling/mass production and medicine: Who'd wake up first, you in a full body cast/wheelchair, or your truck as a KIA?