Hurdles to building a high power 22R-E?
10-18-2009, 06:48 PM
#41
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Modern day HMOs here are more likely to kill you, so the safe bet IMO is on your trashed rig becoming a KIA before you wake up...
That said, I think that quadrupling the power of a 115hp engine would be a lot less scary than quadrupling the power of a 200+hp engine.
That said, I think that quadrupling the power of a 115hp engine would be a lot less scary than quadrupling the power of a 200+hp engine.
Last edited by Dirt Driver; 10-18-2009 at 06:53 PM.
01-19-2010, 06:16 AM
#42
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Talk about bringing one back form the dead!
Just wanted to say that I, for one, thinks it is absolutly POSSIBLE to get 500hp out of an R series engine.
I can personally vouch for the ruggedness of the bottom end. My friends and I built a 22r several years ago for my 2wd '86. We used an engnblder master kit, stock crank, rods, and pistons. The rv/torque cam from engnblder (268 cam), NWOR try-y header, and ignition recurve spring, an MSD 6AL and put a dry shot of giggle gas on it. This was accomplished by removing the stud from the center of the stock carb, and installing the fogger nozzle in the airbox lid, firing straight into the carb.The clips held the lid on....
Starting with the jet for 50hp, we did a test run....no real breaking in, just straight at the bottle after ~100 miles. We couldn't feel a difference, so we went with a 100hp jet.....still no dice....
After removing the jet altogether, and having the empty feed line shooting straight into the carb, on a fresh engine, with *minimal* break in time, we finally started feeling the nitrous the way we had expected......
I drove this truck daily, on nitrous, for over a year. Then removed the bottle, because I got tired of filling it twice a week@$40 a pop, and drove it N/A for another 3-4 years. I've seen it spin 7500rpms doing doughnuts in snow more than once. I abused that engine to no end, and finally....the cheap head gasket went.
I'd be willing to bet, that if someone were willing to spend the time and money designing a proper CNC aluminum head, like the v8 guys have (trick flow, AFR, etc etc) that they'd sell like hot cakes for these little engines. Also, if someone were to make intake manifolds, besides Offy, they'd sell too...and help reach the 500hp 4 banger. I KNOW the bottom is strong enough, but it seems the intake/head is where the fault lies.....
Just wanted to say that I, for one, thinks it is absolutly POSSIBLE to get 500hp out of an R series engine.
I can personally vouch for the ruggedness of the bottom end. My friends and I built a 22r several years ago for my 2wd '86. We used an engnblder master kit, stock crank, rods, and pistons. The rv/torque cam from engnblder (268 cam), NWOR try-y header, and ignition recurve spring, an MSD 6AL and put a dry shot of giggle gas on it. This was accomplished by removing the stud from the center of the stock carb, and installing the fogger nozzle in the airbox lid, firing straight into the carb.The clips held the lid on....
Starting with the jet for 50hp, we did a test run....no real breaking in, just straight at the bottle after ~100 miles. We couldn't feel a difference, so we went with a 100hp jet.....still no dice....
After removing the jet altogether, and having the empty feed line shooting straight into the carb, on a fresh engine, with *minimal* break in time, we finally started feeling the nitrous the way we had expected......
I drove this truck daily, on nitrous, for over a year. Then removed the bottle, because I got tired of filling it twice a week@$40 a pop, and drove it N/A for another 3-4 years. I've seen it spin 7500rpms doing doughnuts in snow more than once. I abused that engine to no end, and finally....the cheap head gasket went.
I'd be willing to bet, that if someone were willing to spend the time and money designing a proper CNC aluminum head, like the v8 guys have (trick flow, AFR, etc etc) that they'd sell like hot cakes for these little engines. Also, if someone were to make intake manifolds, besides Offy, they'd sell too...and help reach the 500hp 4 banger. I KNOW the bottom is strong enough, but it seems the intake/head is where the fault lies.....
01-19-2010, 12:16 PM
#43
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1.) Whatever doesn't exist can be designed and built. Obviously budgets can get out of hand that way, but the biggest "special" items I can think of for a 22R_ are the rods and pistons and those are available OTS. Even if the stock crank was just cast and not forged, I would still expect it to hold over 500hp. The main caps would probably need straps or a girdle. The straps would be fairly easy to have made.
2.) I think the reasoning behind diesel-electric trains is that they are so big and heavy and have such long takeoff distances that a mechanical clutch system would be impractical. The motors allows for gradual speedup without nuking anything. As for a diesel-electric car, remember that the more times energy changes form, the more of it is lost to inefficiencies.
There is also the option of running E85. Staged methanol injection would be pretty easy with a standalone. Yeah, I have seen a GT35 which is why I raised an eyebrow when somebody mentioned using one on a 22RTE. OTOH, there is guy on turboford.org that put compound turbos(a Holset HX35 and an SC61 or something ridiculous) on a stock 2.3T shortblock and managed to get 30psi at 2500rpm. He also compressed one of the rods by about 0.100".
2.) I think the reasoning behind diesel-electric trains is that they are so big and heavy and have such long takeoff distances that a mechanical clutch system would be impractical. The motors allows for gradual speedup without nuking anything. As for a diesel-electric car, remember that the more times energy changes form, the more of it is lost to inefficiencies.
There is also the option of running E85. Staged methanol injection would be pretty easy with a standalone. Yeah, I have seen a GT35 which is why I raised an eyebrow when somebody mentioned using one on a 22RTE. OTOH, there is guy on turboford.org that put compound turbos(a Holset HX35 and an SC61 or something ridiculous) on a stock 2.3T shortblock and managed to get 30psi at 2500rpm. He also compressed one of the rods by about 0.100".
As for the other thoughts on electric stuff in this thread. I'm a Renewable Energy Engineering student at OIT (first program in the country). Biodiesel, renewable energy production, and electric cars are the future.
01-21-2010, 04:40 AM
#44
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My engine was built by L C Engineering and it puts out 285 HP. The 20R head they did will flow better then almost any Chevy (I have chevys in my street rods). I run twin 45 DCOA Webers with Nitrous. The cam and engine are redlined at 9500 RPM and I do not go over 8500 RPM. The motor is stroked with all the tricks done. If I make changes to ignition, carb jets, nitrous system, etc. I could pull a little over 300HP and not effect reliability but I would not want to go any higher. If you want 500HP modify a Toyota V8.
09-26-2012, 03:28 AM
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VEMS ECU, head work, compound turbo setup, and pump gas with 50/50 H20-meth injection. I think that would be a good route to go. In order to make high HP numbers you need to spin fast, especially on a small displacement engine. You could make a torque monster with a lower redline and the generic combo above though.
11-12-2012, 04:08 PM
#46
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Hey guys, I figured this is as good a thread as any to ask. I've looked in other sections and came up mostly empty, but I'd like to know what I should do to my 22RE to get it between 200-250. So I guess double what it is now. All I've seen as mods extends to a 20R head for better flow. If you know threads that extend only as far as keeping up with traffic and modernizing that motor to double its stock level, help me out. Maybe I suck at searching...
11-12-2012, 11:55 PM
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The difference between power and gearing rears its head when things break. A 5hp lawnmower could be made to traverse anything a 1000hp 4wd truck can, given proper gearing (and obviously weight). I'll be willing to bet, however, that lawnmower won't do 80 MP/H on the street. And I bet the 4wd truck doesn't cut lawns either... so?
Can you explain why you think using a jet engine is cheaper than coaxing 500hp from a 22r?
I'll argue that above around 140HP or so, the cost of horsepower from a 22r/re amounts to $10/HP, which would net out at around $5000 for 500hp. For argument's sake, I'll say it costs $10000 to get 500 HP from a 22r/re.
A 500 Shaft-Hp turbine would set one back around 15-20 thousand (US dollars), not including the transmission system required to put that power to the ground.
You're point was?
11-13-2012, 02:52 AM
#49
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I have $10,000.00 in my motor / system and I can achieve a little over 300 HP max so I agree with ABECEDARIAN you will spend $15-20,000.00 on 500 HP and I doubt if the motor will last long.
11-13-2012, 09:08 AM
#50
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Just swap in a supercharged 3.4, or swap in a 2rz / 3rz with a turbo kit. the 2rz/ 3rz are good for about 220hp on the stock bottom end, 350whp with headgasket and studs...
12-21-2012, 12:54 PM
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ya it would be awsome if a 4age head would fit on! they have bigger ports than any v-8 I've seen Lol !! any racy twin cams ! but 4age's have no torque to speak of and I think even a really ported 22re would lose that awsome torque band but wouild rev!! soo ya it would be good for dessert or high speed stuff thats it ! I would like to get 200 or so !? but keep the torque higher than horsepower for muddin or climbing or crawling ! nice trailrig! I imagine that this is fairly attainable probably stock, low boost, bigger injectors! some mild head work?? has anybody gone that route thats what I wanna do!
12-21-2012, 01:38 PM
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12-12-2015, 06:44 PM
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Thx for the help
Thx for this... I'm an 18 year old kid tht wants to blow money on an old toyota thts nor worth it... I really needed this thx... I really want to squeeze ever house out of my 22R motor... butt thts the thing I want everything out of a 22R not 22RE... I like fule injected butt want to keep the carb I have an old pre 85 22R... want to no how to squeeze all the house out of this thing without having a computer... I just want it to bee me putting gas to the pedal tht goes to a motor thts just the motor... if I can get help with tht, tht would be so sweet...
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