turbowhine

I have a '91 4Runner 22RE 4x4 5sp with 200k+ miles and I'd like to tighten up the braking a bit. I recently had the chance to drive another 91 with about half the miles on it and I noticed the difference in where the brake pedal seems to really engage the brakes. It made me realize that I should work on mine a bit. I'm wondering if an adjustment of different things or a replacement of pads, rotors, etc. will help to create more braking power in a shorter stroke of the pedal? The pedal seems to engage the brakes within a few cm's of being pushed but doesn't start really giving stopping power until a bit late in the stroke of the pedal. My fluid levels are all fine and the booster doesn't leak, but I'm just wondering if this is a symptom of worn pads and rotors/drums? Any thoughts about good preventitive maintenance to do before I start to dig in? Where is a good place to start to get that old 'right from the factory' braking power?

The PO replaced the pads not too long ago (10,000mi???) but not the rotors, so I'll start by measuring those...

Thanks

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

was the other runner a v6?
the v6 if i recall correctly has bigger calipers and pads. Maybe swap over the v6 braking system and the runner might brake better. But search. I'm sure its been covered in other threads for the swap

sas'd22re

Upgrade youyr master cylinder to the 1" bore. Or just check your pads and bleed the system for now

betelnut

I'm trying to do the same on mine, but haven't gotten far. My brakes do the same thing, which makes them really hard to finesse.

Someone told me to check the rear brake adjustment. The rear drum brakes have automatic adjustment mechanisms that take up slack when the handbrake is pulled. The poster told me to pump the handbrake while driving forward and backward to try to get them to work better. You could also get into the access hole with a screwdriver to adjust them, but be careful not to overtighten them.

These suggestions only worked partly for me. Over spring break I might mess with that a little more. Otherwise, I'm going to check the calipers and brake cylinders to see if they're sticky. Wish I had another 4Runner I could try out for comparison....

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Lots of variables to good brakes:
Master Cylinder
Booster
Pads
Rotors
Drums
Adjustment
Pedal
Fluid (flush/bleed)
etc.

20+ year old equipment is not going to be "fresh" unless it has been serviced and maintained.

Take it to some place like Midas and get a free brake inspection and see what they say. Otherwise you are just "guessing".

yotaman85

+1 on the flush and bleed.

survivorman97

iTrader: (1)

Yeah if the drums are out of speck also that could definitely contribute to the pedal travel distance. Even if they are tight the pistons in the rear could be moving further than normal.

coops2k

#2, if the fluid is not clear, change it out.
just got an 87 pickup, the fluid was brown, flushed it and found a bad master cyl. Brakes feel 1000times better

betelnut

I disagree. Do it yourself so you can learn. If Midas can tell you something, then you could have figured it out yourself.

Junkers88

Although mine is not a 2nd gen I can tell you that the rear brake shoe sdjuster things (I have no idea what they are called) can get stuck and will no longer automatically adjust the brakes. When I did mine a while back the rear shoes were still new since they didn't even touch the drums when the brake pedal was pressed. We fiddled with the adjusters until they were working a again and my brakes feel a whole lot better now that all four corners are working.

Wrenchinjoe

Assuming you don't have any squealing, grinding or vibration when braking, then a good cleaning and adjustment might help.

As previously posted, change that fluid if it is more brown than amber. You accomplish bleeding the system that way too. I think Summit sells a pressurized bleeder kit that helps bleeding the system without a helper. Perhaps others have tried this....

Rotors and drums have a beveled edge at the outer lip of the braking surface. You can get a base line for whether they are too thin or not according to whether you have any of that beveled edge left. If you are unsure, put a micrometer to it to be on the safe side.

Lastly, not all pads and shoes are created equal. You might have old cheapo pads/shoes on there. Put some time into researching good pads/shoes if you end up replacing that stuff.

Good luck,

WJ

turbowhine

Thanks for all the tips. I know to start with the simple things first, so I'll flush/bleed the fluid and check the adjusters on the rear shoes. I mic'd the rotors and they're still within spec. I guess I should have mentioned earlier that there is no squealing, grinding, pulling to one side, or other problem with the brakes. My vehicle maintenance skills have previously been limited to motorcycles where you can really tell what's going on in the system by feel while braking. I've just never worked on boosters and other car braking components...but I will soon! Thanks again.

Oh, and the other 4Runner I drove to compare was a V6, auto, 4x4...

turbowhine

Flushed and bled the calipers and wheel cylinders with a MightyVac brake bleeder and checked the auto-adjusters on the rear shoes but still have a long pedal travel and difficult to finess brakes. I noticed a little bit of particulate coming from the passenger rear wheel cylinder but everything else seems fine.

How exactly do you best adjust the rear shoes?
Are there any other bleed nipples other than the four at the wheels/brakes?

pruney81

The LSPV needs to be bled on my 90 it's on the passenger side behind the rear axle.

Jay351

Pull the rear drums off, clean out brake dust. Check pad and drum linings, replace if needed. Make sure wheel cylinders are not seized. Adjust to get a slight drag on the drum.

Once this is done, go into an empty parking lot and reverse and reef on the e-brake. Do this 10 times or so and the rear adjusters will take care of the rest.

turbowhine

Ahh...that's the trick, reverse! I had forgotten that's how the auto-adjusters engage.
And the proportioning valve...I'll have to find that one.

Thank you very much for the tips.

turbowhine

Originally my issue was a lack of engagment of the brakes while I pushed the brake pedal, I just recently adjusted my e-brake and it really helped add better feel to the brakes. Anyone who has to pull thier e-brake lever a whole lot before it engages the brakes: I recommend tightening the cable with the adjuster underneath, it made a big difference on my ride. Jerky brakes solved!

betelnut

Well, I think you've found the cause, but the parking brake cable isn't really the solution.

The problem is that the rear brakes are out of adjustment. You should open them up and figure out why the auto-adjustment mechanism isn't working right. Normally, that gets kicked a little when you apply the handbrake, but if something's broken or sticky, it won't work.

Instead what you've done is a sort of adjustment by making the handbrake always applied a little. That works because it gets the pads a little closer to the drum, but this should really be done inside the drum where the adjuster is.

yotayamin

Hey turbowhine, betelnut (my friend!) is right! I just did this today.

I haven't been driving the truck, since I bought it with a bad head gasket, but the parking brake pulled all the way out without engaging the brakes.

I pulled open the rear brakes, lubed up the adjustment mechanism (the star-shaped wheel's threads and other side that turns), put the drums back on, and used a stubby screwdriver to adjust the star so that there was a slight drag when I turned the drum (transmission in neutral).

After I put the wheels back on, the parking brake worked perfectly! Didn't have to adjust the cable at all. The previous owner must not have noticed the bad brakes, or cared about the parking brake. Ha ha!

Going to get the truck inspected tomorrow for the first time. Wish me luck!

YotaFreakTN

the auto adjuster sucks period.

best to use a brake spoon, jack your rear up, and using the brake spoon adjust the auto-adjuster till there is a drag but the tires still spin relative freely. if your adjuster is even remotely loose it could take 20 attempts or more to get it to tighten up with the old reverse trick.