CamTom12

The other day I swapped my spark plugs and changed nothing else. Since then, every time I'm on the highway I get an awful pinging/bucking at speeds above ~60 mph. But not all the time or right away. Seems to be dependent on load. Uphill, it starts sooner (speed and time-wise) and lasts longer after I get out of the throttle. Downhill, it only does it if I'm hard on the throttle. Level, it does it when I try to maintain higher speeds than ~60 mph but as I back out of the throttle it stops fairly quickly.

I changed from AC Delco R43XLS to NGK BPR5EY. Were the AC Delcos a colder plug? I tried to look it up and didn't find an answer. I'm going to go buy some more in a minute to see if I can at least get it running right again.

There might more to the issue though, if I can't run the "normal" 22RE plugs. I think it might be running lean for some reason. I think I'm going to grab a new O2 sensor as well, since I know I've been burning oil (my old plugs were caked in ash) so I think that might be part of the problem. I'm going to pull the codes before I run to the store, so I'll post them up when I get done.

Any other ideas?

CamTom12

Old Plugs:



New Plugs:

#1:



#2:



#3:




#4:

CamTom12

Only had code 10.

CamTom12

The AC Denso plugs helped a bunch on level ground. Still does it up the steep highway hills. Trying a new O2 sensor now. Definitely seems to be a fuel metering/delivery issue.

CamTom12

Well, O2 tested bad, was very sluggishly moving about .8v.

Tried to replace it and the parts store didn't have the right size. Tried to reinstall the old one and one of the studs galled up its threads and twisted off. Very cool.

So I cranked down the other nut on the old O2 sensor and left it unplugged. Then I reset the EFI.

Now it's good to go on level ground, but still pings then stumbles up highway hills. Good news is that I don't have to go up a highway hill to go to work, so I've got more time to properly troubleshoot now that its a little better at least.

I still think it's lean. I guess the next step is checking the fuel pressure. I'll do a search to figure out how to do that.

CamTom12

I was looking back through this thread (well, mostly to see if anyone responded with anything at all.) and realized I didn't mention the green on my #1 spark plug electrode. I'm not 100% sure, but I did some reading and that's most likely oxidation resulting from high heat (running lean). I originally thought it might indicate coolant leaking from a blown head gasket, but I googled and found the oxidation response on a chevelle forum.

Today I'm going to replace the fuel filter and see if the parts store has a fuel pressure tester I can rent. If not then I'll order the one from LCE that fits in place of the CSI.

I figure I'm halfway through a regular tune up on the ignition side anyway, so I'm going to get a new cap and rotor and re-check my timing after installing those parts. I don't *think* that'll fix the problem, I just figure it'd be a good idea to finish the tune up while I'm in there.

I'm also going to grab some seafoam for the fuel, just in case is a partially plugged injector. We'll see how it goes. I'll try that after test driving the new fuel filter to try and isolate actions vs. fixes.

Whether that makes progress or not, I've been meaning to adjust my valves for the last few weeks so if I have time at the end of the day I'll knock that out but I don't think it has any bearing with the current situation.

And apparently I'm just chronicling this for the next guy in case something I do fixes the problem. Thanks for all the input, everyone!

CamTom12

Well, I can say for sure that it wasn't the fuel filter. I replaced that and it still pinged. I bet the reason Toyota calls it a lifetime filter is because of its location - wedged on the block between the intake manifold and the starter.

Timing is backed off to 0 deg. 5 deg is the normal setting. It still pings. New cap/rotor/plugs. Wires ohm'd out good.

Getting frustrated. I'm going to order the fuel pressure adapter set tonight so I can keep troubleshooting when that comes in.

I put a can of seafoam in the tank, so we'll see if there's any improvement by the end of this tank if nothing else.

I didn't get a chance to adjust the valves, maybe I can get that done one of these days after work.

CamTom12

Another post to whoever needs this in the future.


My fuel pressure gauge and adapter came in earlier this week and today I had the chance to hook it up and check it out...

FPR passed the idle check (vacuum applied/removed/applied results in the appropriate fuel pressures) and WOT in 4th gear up the steep highway hill showed no visible decrease in fuel pressure before or after the knocking event.

Here's a video:

https://vimeo.com/155325622

Looks like its neither the FPR or the fuel pump.

There's audible knocking right before the truck starts to lose serious power. Good news is that its now MUCH less pronounced than it was at the beginning of this fuel tank. The only thing this points to is the entire can of seafoam I poured in the tank. It sounds like injectors to me. Any other ideas before I order a set? Who am I kidding. Nobody's going to reply. I'm really just talking to myself here. I'd run more fuel cleaner through, but I have a feeling that's only a band-aid solution. And 4 new injectors is only $200 or so, not too bad.

I still need to adjust the valves, so while I'm in there I'll look at the timing chain alignment and guides to double check their status.

CamTom12

I cleared that code and after a week of driving around with the O2 sensor unplugged the only code I have is the O2 sensor code, #5.

combatcarl

Search "89 22RE stumble bucking misfire" and you'll find my adventure to eliminate my issue. Mine was only evident at heavy throttle application, but was a fix I didn't expect.

CamTom12

I'll check it out, thanks!

CamTom12

The solution to your problem was the messed up gasket from the TB to the intake?

I had the TB off two years ago to install and set a new TPS to fix another issue I was having. I'm pretty sure I got the gasket on straight but I'll pull the TB again to double check.

Good news is that the dealership called today and the O2 sensor stud I ordered came in, so I should be able to mount a new O2 sensor today. I'm still running lean according to my plugs though, so I don't imagine that'll fix anything. I've been running with no O2 sensor (installed but not plugged in) the past week and to my understanding I should be running in the open loop tables and really rich. Plugs still show white.

I'll check the TB gasket, and if its fine I'm going to order some new injectors and o-rings and such. I'd pull mine and send them out but this is my DD.

combatcarl

Yeah, there was a minor thing or two that I fixed along the way, but any high load at mid range rpm was causing a very lean condition. A quick check that might help, is just to make sure your engine isn't getting any "un-metered" air. No cracks in intake tube, missing/cracked vac caps/hoses, etc. There's an outfit in WA called witchhunter (or something) that does a great injector service. Think it's like $72 for all four injectors. When I can have mine down for a week or so, I'll be sending mine off.
I know you said you replaced plugs, did you do cap/rotor/wires, too? Just random thoughts.

CamTom12

I've gone through the vacuum tubes pretty good looking for cracks and haven't found anything. I've been meaning to bring a spray bottle out to see if there's any leaks I can't see, but haven't yet. I might get to that today. It's nice to have a day off

I did cap/rotor, but the wires looked good and ohm'd out fine so I left them in there.

I appreciate your ideas!

Dezert_Yota86

Reading through this and your comments I couldn't help myself but to imagine The Cast Away guy working on a yota...

Not entirely sure what the 22re fuel pumps look like or if they are in tank ones or not but if there's a filter on there it could be causing some pickup issues. I know I ran in to that with an in tank one on a ranger I had. More recently I ran into that with my 22r. They have a small filter on the pickup tubes. the filter was completely destroyed and something had gotten into my fuel line. I was having stumbling issues at higher speeds as well. Just some food for thought.

CamTom12

Lol, felt that way for a while.

I've still got good fuel pressure at the rail, even under high load / wide open throttle. If it comes down to it I'll drop the tank and check the pump and sock, but right now my troubleshooting isn't pointing that direction. Thanks for the input though!

CamTom12

Well, I went out to wiggle the vacuum lines again just to see if there was a leak I missed... Two of the big suckers broke. Heat hardened I guess. I hadn't wiggled those the first time. So now I've got to walk to the parts store and pick up some more vacuum line. I'm just going to buy a crap-ton of it and replace it all.

I'm not sure if either of those was leaking, so I'll hold off on ordering the injectors for now. Also, my PCV broke when I tried to remove it. The grommet was hard and brittle - it broke, too. Might have been leaking air there, too. I'll grab a new one and a new valve cover grommet.

I went ahead and pulled the valve cover to check the valve lash. It's supposed to be set with the engine hot (.008 I / .014 E), but I found where a guy had set his to specs hot and then checked the lash with the engine cold and used those values (.014 I / .025 E). All my valves were very tight. They're much looser now. Once I get the PCV and vacuum line fixed I'm going to fire it up, take it up the hill to test for any progress, then come back and reset the valve lash while its hot.

scope103

You'll notice the factory vacuum lines are marked (with something like #2). You should consider getting a "paint pen" and marking your replacements. Your future self will thank you.

CamTom12

No markings on these, probably not original. Good idea though, I'll mark the new ones.

CamTom12

Well, I think it might be fixed.

Unfortunately I changed 3 things at once so I can't be sure what it was. All new vacuum lines (including the big one that runs from the cold start air valve up to the front of the TB), new PCV, and adjusted the valves. I went ahead and bypassed that crazy warm start FPR VSV while I was at it.

On the test run up the hill I couldn't hear if it was pinging or not (raining hard today), but it didn't buck and stumble like it had.

So I advanced the timing back to 5 deg and had another successful test run.

Take-aways: most of my vacuum lines split when I pulled them off the nipples. Also, the metal vacuum lines that run the EGR are rusted shut so I bypassed them. Not sure if the EGR valve itself is cycling, but now it'll get proper vacuum signal. My valves were also VERY tight. Zero lash when cold. I've never adjusted it, and I've owned this truck for about 5,000 miles. And my PCV was so brittle it and the valve cover grommet it fits in broke into tiny pieces when I tried removing them.

I'm curious if it was a combination of lean mixture due to a vacuum leak with valves staying slightly open and not transferring heat that caused the detonation, but we'll never know.

I've currently got another can of seafoam in a fresh tank of gas and I bought another can to run in the next tank as well. I might step back to once a month afterwards. I'm sure my injectors aren't perfect, but hopefully I won't have to replace them.

My next chore is to get the busted O2 sensor stud pulled and put a new O2 sensor in.