Yep, even pointed it out in my sig.... you missededed it! lol.

 

Chef, If you could send me those numbers and what not that would be awesome! I'd be into the whole leaf pack mod if its a worthwhile thing to do. I'm into doing things right the first time. I'm headed of to college next week so you're probably going to get done much before me so i'd be interested to hear how yours turn out, I really like the idea of just doing it the way you are thinking, it just seems much simpler. I like the Zuk mod as well, but i think i'm in the same boat as you that it would only be a temporary fix. I tend to load up the bed with dirt bikes, mountain bikes and general toys often so I don't know if that changes anything. Thanks for all the advice.

 

The zuk mod handles heavy loads very very well. Just saying.

 

I'll keep that in mind! I'm open to about anything that will make it better than what it is. right now. I think i'll be jacking up the T bars a bit this weekend just to see how that works out.

 

Aren't you going for a softer ride? Cranking the torsion bars will make the front end stiffer.

 

NB, .... look at my signature, the link there that says, "Zuk Mod Thread"........ It does NOT have to be solely a temporary fix. I have loaded up well over 500# in there and only dropped an inch or so in height(I run the 12"x125# Coils).... Within 1 DAY, if you already have the coils, you could cut/spread open bump tower pillars/slide in spring and be done with it for a while. It WILL NOT be a cushy ride with a pick up, unless you're carrying a load. When you do, it's a VERY nice ride with the weight in there of toys, tons of gear, whatever. It's something to think about doing for now, considering you're pressed for time and want something to help out for now. You could always, like any of us with the Zuk Mod, pull them out and add whatever you want, bending back the bump tower pillars and welding the plate you cut off back on......LATER. (TALK TO ZUK, he might have an idea for you. A way to soften the ride, bring the leaf pack back a lil, might just be to do a 12"x100# coil, instead of one like mine? Maybe that would keep it from raising it more than just back to normal ride height? Worth asking, trust me, ....and if you ask him on my zuk thread, he'll probably get back to you there, or on Philberts Zuk Thread>>>REALLY great write up! I did mine a lil different than Philbert, as I didn't wanna remove so much of the tower pillers)

If you're talking of tightening the T-bars, it will lift the front end and stiffen the ride, like mentioned above^^^^. I think you said the ride is more jarring in rear, right? Well, the Zuk would fix that some, while it wouldn't be as soft and flexy as a new OME Leaf Pack or something. But the front end, if I remember correctly(IIRC).... weren't you saying it's just sloppy and kerplunkity and things are fliberdyjibbeting around up there? If that's the case, tightening the torsion bars wont solve your problem. If they're VERY used up, then sure, they may have flopped out a lil bit and you could maybe benefit from maybe 1-2 turns on them, tighter. (they can usually go around 16 full turns or so looser, not sure how much tighter, but definitely 6-8 full turns? The more you tighten them, the more your ride will get bone jarring and you will lose flex up there at the same time(which is limited to begin with! lol)... This is why many add BJoint spacers(I got mine from 4crawler.com, he's a member here, good guy).. when you add that 1.5" spacer, you allow more possibility for travel(with the right set up) and you can ALSO loosen the torsion bars to where it will relax them a bit more. the problem you can run into, by loosening them, is they might end up BOUNCING LIKE A LOWRIDER! lol. They're springs, albeit different than leafs, they still support the front end and resist that bounce. As you loosen them, too much, they WILL bounce like a lowrider and you will HATE the ride at that extreme as well. The key is to play around with it till you get it where you want it.

I also mentioned 'reconditioning' your front end. I replaced the Control Arm Bushings, removed the sway bar(to add a lil flex) and put all new ball joints in, ball joint spacers, shocks, Moog Idler Arm w/bronze bushings, had my alignment done and HOLY CRAPOLI, MAN, .....the ride is like night and day in the "less noise/more comfortable/better handling, etc., etc." dept.!

Google and look up here as well, "Idler arm tests", "Ball Joints Test", or "How do I tell if my _ _ _ are bad", etc., .... it's a series of very simple tests, as mentioned, where you lift the front end and pull the tire side to side and top to bottom toward and away from yourself. Some tests are done with it on the ground as well. Steering and Suspension Components are not that difficult to diagnose.... not always so easy to replace, lol.(ESPECIALLY on IFS rigs).

In my humble opinion, while you started out saying, "I want it the same height"........ I think you might benefit from an all around 2" lift with some cushy attributes, etc., ya know? Shocks make a HUGE difference in ride, for instance....but they do NOTHING to lift it, as you know.... and they can only do so much for the comfort of ride if the suspension/steering linkage is FUBAR, ya know?

 

In theory yes, but I'm thinking, maybe very incorrectly, that they may be just hitting the bumps all the time and being stiffer and not hitting could possibly be smoother. But i really don't know if it will do anything. Its not too hard to do and if it doesn't work than I'll just put em back and wait till I can afford some good bilsteins. Someday I'm just going to go all out and get the TC kit and what not, but I have to graduate college and get a real job first.

 

Chef, thanks again for all the advice, you are clearly more experienced than myself. I'm starting to think the +2 inches wouldn't be such a bad thing either. I'll look into those spacers as well. The hardest thing for me right now just seems to be deciding on which way to go.I've learned from mountain biking that smooth suspension pivots make a much bigger difference than anything else you can do so Bushings and shocks seem to be the must do. and that zuk spring seems to be sounding good as well, but let me know how your HD leaf add goes. And unfortunately my summer is coming to end and all this work is months down the road, so it may seem pointless to be asking now, but I like to have a plan so I know what to work and save for and buy parts as I can so by next summer it will all come together and I'll have a much smoother ride to hit the trails on. Again thanks for the guidance. I'll post about any progress as it happens and fallow how your rear end turns out. I also have a steering gear rebuild to get on. the work never ends does it?

 

zuk mod... better than airbags? I think so

 

I just remembered, when you mentioned bushings, that when I replaced all of my rubber body mounts with poly bushings it helped to soften/correct my ride a lot more than I expected. They're super easy to replace if you have a hi-lift and a 2x4. I'm planning to replace my rear ES3000's with Bilsteins in the next couple of weeks. I'd be willing to send them to you for free if you want them and can cover shipping. They have about 3000 miles on them.

I'd stay away from adding a leaf unless you want to stiffen the rear. If you plan to replace the rear packs, Alcan gets rave reviews for not sagging like lots of other springs, but they're pricey (made in the USA!).

Edit: FWIW, I would NOT even consider putting the ES3000's up front.

 

I love the idea of getting Toyota springs too... I mean, how long did it take before those started sagging? Link

 

Hey man,.... no problem. Just remember to go to my build thread and bookmark it..... Then when you're ready, you can hit me up. I might still have your thread subscribed, but I have so many now, I can't say I wont have to delete an inactive one, ya know? Like I said, just post a quick one on my thread or send me a PM when you're ready, and I'll gladly reopen the discussion with ya

Far as the 2" lift, etc., .... See, if you put 1.5" spacers in, and redo your bushings/possibly idler arm/rebuild your steering box(HUGE ONE that can effect ride up front).... you'll not only have a smooth ride still, .....but you can always turn down the torsion on the bars up front, like I did, and wind up with basically a 1.5" lift and NOT any more torsion on the bars.(When you add the spacers, you're forcing the upper control arm further upward, ....so naturally, the torsion bars are going to have more tension put upon them, right? By relaxing them a bit, you'll basically have the same ride you would have, PLUS a lil more travel, etc., depending on how you set up the IFS/Bushings/Ball joints.

I also have a few sites, when you're ready, that you can get OEM bushings and ball joints at around 40% off dealer cost(hell, 60% off MY DEALER! Rapists!!!! hahaha) Some will recommend Poly Bushings... They have their pros and cons... I mean, I've driven on mine for 20 years before they started to make noise and effect my ride(mine are OEM)... and now replaced them because they WERE due(while not as due as MANY who live back east, etc., ya know?). I guess I'm saying that, since the Poly are apparently Harder ride, and CAN squeak quite a bit if not greased properly, I just stuck with "Toyotas junk" lol, which is 'rubber'.

Just throwing out as much info and thoughts on this as possible, for the purpose of keeping you thinking/digging around for more info. I AM NOT an expert, in any way, man! lol. I just have a pretty much restored IFS and I LOVE IT! lol. You'll have to decide on Poly or OEM, etc.(Just a side note.... Poly are also MUCH cheaper. BUT, you have to press/burn the old bushings out of the carriers if you wanna get the poly bushings in there. OEM, you just take the arms to the machinist, have em press the old out and new in, install them and that's it.

Take care, ....and wish you the best at School!

 

great write up going to do the front end soon
How rough is the ride with the zuk mod unloaded?? In wont be doing any towing with this rig

 

Hey Bust-em... You a Cop? YOU HAVE TO TELL ME, YA KNOW! lol hahahaha. jk...

Anyway, .... I wouldn't say it's 'ROUGH' at all. It's just a lil stiff, depending on the spring you get. But stiff, .....compared to riding almost literally on the bump stops, springs hyperextended? HELL NO! lol. Like I said, when you get A LIL weight in there, even a couple hundy, it's considerably more forgiving on the 'parking lot bumps', etc.

Also, keep in mind that I'm STILL running my RS5000's, which are NOTORIOUSLY stiff! So, seeing that I am running 12"x125# Zuk coils(probably a lil ''STIFFER'' ride than the 14x100#)..... RS5000's for a 3" lift........ I'm probably not going to be able to give you an accurate summation on how EXACTLY soft/hard they are supposed to be.. But considering, even as my set up is a lil stiffer than some.... IT'S STILL NIGHT AND DAY from where it was! When I used to hit bumps, people would literally say, in the back, "OMGOSH, I can't ride back here anymore... that's KILLING ME!" lol. Ever ridden on a Hard Tail Hog? YEAH, that bad, AND WORSE! lol.

With the Zuk, I can carry FAR more weight than my buddy with a NEW set of Superlift 2" lift springs can, before it starts sagging out!

So, I think it's a give and take. With a New custom leaf pack or modified one; GREAT ride, very quick recovery/fill in on the bumps/dips, taking the blow a lil smoother than my Zuk.....but once you get some weight in mine, not even a FULL LOAD or anything,.... it's pretty comparable and VERY capable of taking LOTS more weight, IMHO.

Far as flex? Meh..... I haven't figured that out EXACTLY just yet, but I have some pics up on my build thread that show it can do fairly well w/out riding on 3 all the time, lol.

 

Blackbox, count me in on the ES 3000's! PM me your address or I can give you mine and we'll figure out the shipping costs and thanks for that link. I really didn't know where to find oem stuff besides an overpriced dealer. 500 is just a bit much for stock springs for me though when deavers aren't much more.

TFE that is quite impressive, how does it handle without a load? I guess i'm trying to find a good middle ground in stiffness because on weekends I load up with moto's and head out to go ride and it takes some minor wheeling to get out there when its wet in the winter, but then on week days I have a light load of mountain bikes shuttling up the worst road in existance. Its just full of two foot square edged bumps that are just bone jarring right now. I'm thinking a conversation with Zuk himself is in order.

 

I used 12x 150 springs it rides just fine. Im not that picky though its a truck and it should ride like one.

 

Can't speak for TFE, .... but I DO KNOW he carries LOTS of weight at times, ...lot more than you're planning, from what I remember.

I'm just guessing, but I'd bet that Zuk will tell ya 12"x125#, which will bring the springs back to an arch and give you a LIL lift, but nothing that you can't fix with a set of bj spacers up front from 4crawler.com(roger). Of course, you could just redo the IFS a bit and fix your steering box, call it a day... but then you WILL have some rake(where the rear is higher than the front). ESPECIALLY with a pick up.

I have the 12x125 springs and in a 4runner, to boot, which is DEFINITELY heavier in back than the pick ups. So I would assume that 150# springs would be a bit 'tight' for your needs, but EXACTLY, please, talk it over with Zuk, he will give you the best advice on these. BTW, be patient... while he usually does get back pretty quickly, he is taking more time off, from what I gathered... so I would PM him, as well as commenting on my thread and Philberts thread(You can find Philberts ID in my thread, and send him a PM as well, ya know? He's a really nice guy. He has 14"x100# coils on his 1st Gen T4R and it lifted his rear end RIGHT UP! And he can tell you about his ride, etc. I think the 14"ers would be too tall for you, of course) ...but maybe you might even want 12"x100# if they make em, ya know? They would STILL allow you plenty of load capacity and may just ride a lil softer.

Best wishes, have fun!

 

Thanks chef and no not a cop but I do like to shoot ˟˟˟˟. I have two rigid harleys so yea feel your pain. I think I will do the 12x125 whats the best place to get the coil. Maybe I will order spacers shocks and the coil all at the same time.

 

No way, I just looked and sources are listed in every Zuk mod thread.

 

Wow thanks man your a huge help