Help!!! So Confused
Jun 13, 2018 | 01:34 PM
#1
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Help!!! So Confused
1986 22re 4runner with 136K on the clock. First thread but long time reader, can usually just find what i need searching but I'm completely lost.
This whole thing started when I replaced the TPS to fix an inconsistent idle. Ended up buying the wrong one (autozone doesnt know the dif between early and late 22re) but was too late to mess with before my trip so on the trailer she went. Ended up being mostly ok, would just stumble under engine breaking. Saturday night the truck just starts to struggle to idle (of course miles from camp) so i tinkered with it and found that if i turned up the idle with the throttle set screw it would stay running and I went back to camp. Next morning when trying to put it on the trailer it wouldn't even stay running long enough to get it on so i winched up.
Get it back to the house and start reading. Ran a hot wire to the fuel pump and BAM started up and idled. So I figured it was the OCR, hit buy and went back to tinkering. Installed a header, all new exhaust back from there, rebuilt the throttle body and installed a new TPS (from LCE calibrated to 4crawlers specs). OCR came in today and I installed it. Thats where I'm currently at....
Now for the symptoms portion. It will start after a good amount of effort and once it starts itll idle for a while, but it is SUPER rough. I sounds terrible and my tach just kind of flies around wildly. If I jumper the diagnostic port I can get it to idle pretty smoothly but any application of the throttle causes it to stumble and itll never go above like 2K. This is a link to it running https://photos.app.goo.gl/yCoCNoChipFXcYDZA. This condition, even when i was cheating the idle up and it wouldn't run long was not there. THIS IS NEW for sure.
Ran diagnostic on AFM: Checked out good
Rechecked TPS installed: 100% in spec
Fuel pump is not laboring and is running consistantly
No codes
Is it possible the TPS ranges are vague and I need to adjust it still until it runs? I just replaced all the vacuum lines and it ran since then, but is there anything I should check (besides the intake, been there done that)?
HELP!!!!!!!11
This whole thing started when I replaced the TPS to fix an inconsistent idle. Ended up buying the wrong one (autozone doesnt know the dif between early and late 22re) but was too late to mess with before my trip so on the trailer she went. Ended up being mostly ok, would just stumble under engine breaking. Saturday night the truck just starts to struggle to idle (of course miles from camp) so i tinkered with it and found that if i turned up the idle with the throttle set screw it would stay running and I went back to camp. Next morning when trying to put it on the trailer it wouldn't even stay running long enough to get it on so i winched up.
Get it back to the house and start reading. Ran a hot wire to the fuel pump and BAM started up and idled. So I figured it was the OCR, hit buy and went back to tinkering. Installed a header, all new exhaust back from there, rebuilt the throttle body and installed a new TPS (from LCE calibrated to 4crawlers specs). OCR came in today and I installed it. Thats where I'm currently at....
Now for the symptoms portion. It will start after a good amount of effort and once it starts itll idle for a while, but it is SUPER rough. I sounds terrible and my tach just kind of flies around wildly. If I jumper the diagnostic port I can get it to idle pretty smoothly but any application of the throttle causes it to stumble and itll never go above like 2K. This is a link to it running https://photos.app.goo.gl/yCoCNoChipFXcYDZA. This condition, even when i was cheating the idle up and it wouldn't run long was not there. THIS IS NEW for sure.
Ran diagnostic on AFM: Checked out good
Rechecked TPS installed: 100% in spec
Fuel pump is not laboring and is running consistantly
No codes
Is it possible the TPS ranges are vague and I need to adjust it still until it runs? I just replaced all the vacuum lines and it ran since then, but is there anything I should check (besides the intake, been there done that)?
HELP!!!!!!!11
Jun 13, 2018 | 02:55 PM
#2
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I’ve had countless issues with tps modules. I would suggest making sure it’s adjusted correctly. There are threads that have directions on how to do it. My 3.0 did the same thing until i made sure it was in proper adjustment. Hope this helps.
Jun 13, 2018 | 04:30 PM
#3
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The TPS is in spec
I just can't believe it's the TPS, it's a brand new one from Toyota via LCE and it's was for my year. I did the 4 crawler calibration again and these are my numbers
1: 646
2: 12
3: OL
4: 3970
would have liked to get the numbers closer to the middle but this is at the exact point that 3 goes from 11 to OL.
This time I also adjusted it installed to take anything else out of the question.
The biggest confusion to me is, other that a random miss it idles almost perfect with the diagnostic port jumpered. Also, btw, I threw and EFI Relay in there because it was $12. No change
1: 646
2: 12
3: OL
4: 3970
would have liked to get the numbers closer to the middle but this is at the exact point that 3 goes from 11 to OL.
This time I also adjusted it installed to take anything else out of the question.
The biggest confusion to me is, other that a random miss it idles almost perfect with the diagnostic port jumpered. Also, btw, I threw and EFI Relay in there because it was $12. No change
Jun 13, 2018 | 05:42 PM
#4
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From: Reno Nevada
Did you readjust the throttle set screw back down?
Have you checked timing advance/retard?
The bolt that locks the distributor down might have come loose.
Have you you checked your O2 sensor function?
New exhaust and it’s O2 placement may have compounded the issue.
Vacuum leaks?
Verify no vacuum leaks.
These are are quick and easy things that come to mind.
Have you checked timing advance/retard?
The bolt that locks the distributor down might have come loose.
Have you you checked your O2 sensor function?
New exhaust and it’s O2 placement may have compounded the issue.
Vacuum leaks?
Verify no vacuum leaks.
These are are quick and easy things that come to mind.
Jun 13, 2018 | 05:47 PM
#5
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Thanks
Yes, i reset the screw. I pulled the trottle body and rebuilt it with the LCE kit actually to remove that from the equation
Those are new things! Thanks. I didn't think in my wildest dreams the O2 sensor could cause this (it's cheap tho and worth a shot) but the set screw could have come lose. When it was running great the timing was set at 12 adv, and it's so hard to tell now because it's running so badly but it appears to be the same (12adv). But I will check the distributer and make sure, hope that's not it, could have mashed a valve of it slide too much
Those are new things! Thanks. I didn't think in my wildest dreams the O2 sensor could cause this (it's cheap tho and worth a shot) but the set screw could have come lose. When it was running great the timing was set at 12 adv, and it's so hard to tell now because it's running so badly but it appears to be the same (12adv). But I will check the distributer and make sure, hope that's not it, could have mashed a valve of it slide too much
Jun 13, 2018 | 07:37 PM
#6
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From: San Francisco East Bay
Jun 13, 2018 | 08:14 PM
#7
Originally Posted by tgell001
Yes, i reset the screw. I pulled the trottle body and rebuilt it with the LCE kit actually to remove that from the equation
Those are new things! Thanks. I didn't think in my wildest dreams the O2 sensor could cause this (it's cheap tho and worth a shot) but the set screw could have come lose. When it was running great the timing was set at 12 adv, and it's so hard to tell now because it's running so badly but it appears to be the same (12adv). But I will check the distributer and make sure, hope that's not it, could have mashed a valve of it slide too much
Those are new things! Thanks. I didn't think in my wildest dreams the O2 sensor could cause this (it's cheap tho and worth a shot) but the set screw could have come lose. When it was running great the timing was set at 12 adv, and it's so hard to tell now because it's running so badly but it appears to be the same (12adv). But I will check the distributer and make sure, hope that's not it, could have mashed a valve of it slide too much
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Jun 13, 2018 | 11:38 PM
#8
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From: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods
You have checked the fuel Pressure ? just seems correct ??
When was the last fuel filter change ?
What do the plugs look like Being old School that is the first thing I look at .
When was the last fuel filter change ?
What do the plugs look like Being old School that is the first thing I look at .
Jun 14, 2018 | 02:33 AM
#10
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I actually already bought a fuel filter to swap in. I have a fuel cell and I'm paranoid the foam broke down and clogged it. Is there a test port on the fuel rail to check?
Jun 14, 2018 | 04:54 PM
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One more whole day of trouble shooting
Ok, so inverifed the timing has never changes since day 1 but just for good measures I set it to 5 btdc. Runs worse now
Fuel pressure is 40
Replaced the fuel filter
Plugs look like I'm running rich as ˟˟˟˟ this is the pic
https://photos.app.goo.gl/a5Z9LrmDc8GbG6Dv9
Compression is 1: 110 2: 120 3: 95 4: 120... Not great, but not my problem
But in a new O2 sensor, won't even idle now. But that was the last thing I did before I kicked the tool bag and closed the garage door. May have been able to get it to run.
Any more ideas? I feel like I'm running out of options. I've got a trip next weekend planned.
Fuel pressure is 40
Replaced the fuel filter
Plugs look like I'm running rich as ˟˟˟˟ this is the pic
https://photos.app.goo.gl/a5Z9LrmDc8GbG6Dv9
Compression is 1: 110 2: 120 3: 95 4: 120... Not great, but not my problem
But in a new O2 sensor, won't even idle now. But that was the last thing I did before I kicked the tool bag and closed the garage door. May have been able to get it to run.
Any more ideas? I feel like I'm running out of options. I've got a trip next weekend planned.
Jun 14, 2018 | 07:17 PM
#14
It scream electrical to me. Have you verified you grounds are all good? I suck with electrical personally, however I have had my fair share of them.
So...
If all the components that are suspect have checked out good. Then my next step personally would be to make sure the wires connecting those components are in good shape, check visually and then test for resistance. You might have a broken wire hidden it the sheathing. That was my problem with my fuel injection circuit. 3 broken wires that created a slight intermittent problem that slowly became a huge PITA. Sorry I'm not much help.
So...
If all the components that are suspect have checked out good. Then my next step personally would be to make sure the wires connecting those components are in good shape, check visually and then test for resistance. You might have a broken wire hidden it the sheathing. That was my problem with my fuel injection circuit. 3 broken wires that created a slight intermittent problem that slowly became a huge PITA. Sorry I'm not much help.
Jun 16, 2018 | 02:53 AM
#15
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Update
Replaced the could and the plugs.... No change. Ordered injectors and waiting. While I was waiting I decided to get it ready to for when the injectors show up. So I pulled the upper plenum and when I did got it appart I discovered the number one fuel injector connector was broken.
now, did I do that pulling the plenum? Or did I just discover my problem? The injector seals crumbled in my hand so I'm waiting for them to show up regardless. Stand by
now, did I do that pulling the plenum? Or did I just discover my problem? The injector seals crumbled in my hand so I'm waiting for them to show up regardless. Stand by
Jun 18, 2018 | 04:40 PM
#17
you're going backwards because you are throwing parts at it, rather than diagnosing and confirming failure/malfunction. such results should be expected when doing this.
Jun 18, 2018 | 05:05 PM
#19
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From: Reno Nevada
You are adding a lot of variables. EGR delete is a debatable mod in the first place.
What injectors did you get?
Slow down. Go back over everything you’ve touched, insure no vacuum leaks, proper orientation, and secure electrical connections. Propane gas or starting fluid (kinda risky) for vacuum leaks, FSM for orientation, check both sides of electrical connections for loose fit or corrosion, dielectric grease em too.
Once you are satisfied that those criteria have been met, I’d do a resistance check per the fsm of all efi sensors, and then a voltage drop test at both wires for every injector and the fuel pump. Anything fishy from there would require further inspection, ie. open the harness up and look for corrosion/break in the injector or fuel pump wiring . If that all checks out, voltage drop every efi sensor. Can’t remember if you’ve ruled out the COR, so def check that. Voltage drop test, not continuity check. Google can explain why. Don’t do any further modifications until you get it back to running properly. Then throw all the mods and parts at it you want.
What injectors did you get?
Slow down. Go back over everything you’ve touched, insure no vacuum leaks, proper orientation, and secure electrical connections. Propane gas or starting fluid (kinda risky) for vacuum leaks, FSM for orientation, check both sides of electrical connections for loose fit or corrosion, dielectric grease em too.
Once you are satisfied that those criteria have been met, I’d do a resistance check per the fsm of all efi sensors, and then a voltage drop test at both wires for every injector and the fuel pump. Anything fishy from there would require further inspection, ie. open the harness up and look for corrosion/break in the injector or fuel pump wiring . If that all checks out, voltage drop every efi sensor. Can’t remember if you’ve ruled out the COR, so def check that. Voltage drop test, not continuity check. Google can explain why. Don’t do any further modifications until you get it back to running properly. Then throw all the mods and parts at it you want.
