ditypup

Hi folks - 87 22R in my pickup started leaking coolant this past winter. I don't drive it much so it was sitting there until recently with occasional use. Like once in a month or so. This external leak stopped on it's own when it got warmer. There is no coolant in the oil but don't know for sure if there isn't a little oil in the coolant.


As of now, the truck is using coolant and the upper rad hose is really under a lot of pressure. It is under a lot of pressure right off the bat when I start it up. It is also idling strange. It idles normal then every 20 seconds or so the idle will increase for a few seconds then back to normal.


My take on this is that there must be a small (now) leak from a cylinder to a water jacket. And the idle might be caused by air in the cooling system so the coolant temp sensor is acting funny. The overflow bottle was empty last night and just a few minutes ago when I started it up to check under the hood the bottle had about half fill in it. So it is pushing coolant back into the overflow bottle. Isn't this a sure sign of a head gasket failure?


Well If I have to tear into this one, I might just pull the engine and go through it. New bearings, rings etc. But maybe not. It is really running well normally. only 188K on it. And it has lots of power.


thoughts....?

superex87

pretty good chance the head gasket is leaking. A compression test and or leak down test would give you a better idea of the issue. It is common for the engine block surface to corrode is coolant is contacting it, which over time gets worse and worse ect. To truly fix a head gasket leak on a 22r engine I recommend having both the head and block shaved to guarantee they are flat.

ditypup

Thank you for your reply. If it is that bad, I do have a spare 85 block on the stand fresh from machine shop and a brand new Nippon racing head on the shelf. Hoping that I don't have to go that far. This 87 22R has been a very good engine up to this point. Guess I'll do a compression test tomorrow.

ditypup

Compression check results.
#1 - 167, #2 - 168, #3 - 168, #4 - 166
now tearing into the coolant system inspect

jennygirl

idle issue does sound suspect of a coolant system needing a good burp.

It's the 22R carb? Or 22RE EFI? Sorry to ask, sometimes people like to interchange!

ditypup

22R Carb 87. I pulled the thermostat and replaced the rubber seal on it, as it looked like it had deteriorated and leaked some. Replaced the old top rad hose that was making me nervous as it was getting larger around over time. The #3 and #4 plugs were a little dark on the insulators, but #1 and #2 looked nice with a nice light tan. I guess it's possible there is something going bad in the back two cylinders. Why two cylinders I don't know.
I'm debating pulling the whole engine and replacing. I've got a short block and a 93 stock head too. Looks like I would have to pull the head anyway. Think I'll do another compression check and make sure it's good and hot this time.

osv

if the upper radiator hose was under pressure, the radiator should be also, which you could confirm by cracking the radiator cap.

i saw this on a honda once, stone cold, engine off, it blew out a bunch of coolant when the cap was opened slightly.

all i could figure was that the radiator cap was bad/wrong pressure, because afaik, the way that the system is supposed to work, is that it pulls coolant back in from the overflow, when the engine is cold(??)

that's why the coolant level is at it's minimum in the overflow, when the engine is cold: http://www.cartalk.com/content/car-t...advice-coolant

i'd guess that it's not normally relevant to a coolant loss.

you can get a test kit from the local flaps that will test for exhaust in the radiator fluid, i wouldn't go pulling the motor just yet.

if coolant is getting lost into the combustion chamber, the presence of liquid in there would clean the combustion chamber... that's what happens with water injection, so it might be easy visible as a clean spark plug.

ditypup

Thanks for the replies. When I loosen the cap while its running and warming up it spews coolant. So rad IS under pressure too and if the t-stat hasn't opened up yet that shouldn't be happening. As well I put a flashlight up on the overflow bottle and it has air bubbles out of the tube inside.
I think I have a pinhole leak in the head gasket.
Better to get to this problem now than wait.
And Jenny, I believe you were right about the idle issue. I got it filled back up and there was no more idle issue.

Kiroshu

X2 on possible radiator pressure cap faulty.

There are SEVERAL places on the 22R engine that can leak coolant internally and cause engine performance issues.

Intake manifold gasket failure between intake ports and coolant ports.

EGR cooler gasket failure leaking into EGR passage which runs into the intake and rear cylinders exhaust.

Very rarely some coolant vacuum VSVs may develop holes from cooling system corrosion and in turn makes its way into the carburetor and intake.

Cylinder head gasket failure is possible... I've seen some minor head leaks stop... and then I've seen them get worse.

Does it smell like exhaust when you open the radiator pressure cap.. that's a good sign of head to block leakage.

Timing cover into crankcase leak is usually worst case leak.

ditypup

No doesn't smell like exhaust. Wonder about the VSV on the manifold now that you mention it.

Rtact777

Have you check thermostat? And all your gaskets... Also does the exhaust blow alot of smoke? Mine did that from small leak in head gasket till it blew

ditypup

T-stat is OK. It is smoking some from the tailpipe. this engine is going to get a little TLC.

ditypup

Well I'm here to tell you, taking a head off a 1987 2x Toyota pickup just plain sucks. And to top it off, there was not a thing I can see wrong with the head gasket, in fact the fire rings on it look like new. I cannot see any trace of a coolant leak, so if it is a pin hole leak it is very small. I will get it under a light and use a magnifying glass and do a super look at it, but it looks fine.


There are however places that were leaking under the intake manifold, and really you have to take the intake manifold off to replace the seals. And I haven't a clue how anyone could get this intake man off of the head in the truck. Impossible for me. So the head is off.


I'm going to clean it up and get the head cleaned up and checked. I'll replace all the leaky seals, maybe even a new timing set while it's easy to do. New T-stat going in too.


I'm going to take that reed valve thing off and plug the holes on the exhaust man. That thing looks worthless to me. Of course the EGR pathways are all crudded up, open to flow but restricted with the buildup.
I haven't taken the rear cover plate off yet though.


I'll post a couple of pics here in a few.

ditypup

With that read valve square box out of the way under the intake maybe I can get the intake back on without it being attached to the head.

ditypup

188K on it before HG failure not the reed valve on bottom of pic that is going bye bye




# 1 fire ring split




fire ring split


OK The number 1 cylinder fire ring is split. So this HG is bad.

ditypup

This might have been leaking air into the coolant for quite a while.

ditypup

I just pulled a hose off the center BVSV valve and coolant came out! But there is no way that I can see that coolant can get in the vacuum lines? Anyone have any ideas or have seen this before?

ditypup

Head gasket is replaced. However, three of the bolts on the cover under the manifold snapped off. Wonderful. Got what remains of the bolts soaking in PB. Hope I can get them out or I will be searching for another manifold.

ditypup

I got the broken bolts out and got the manifold back on and engine back to running. No leaks. But, it idles really rough. It's exhibits symptoms of a manifold leak or a leaky or bad EGR valve. The valve was pretty clean inside and now that I think of it maybe it has been stuck open for a while. About a year ago it did start idling a little rough. Now it idles pretty rough and lacks power and does not accelerate smoothly. From what I have researched these are symptoms of a bad EGR. So I made some block off plates and will see if that is the culprit.

osv

you can check for a stuck egr valve by sucking on the vacuum hose connected to it, while the egr valve is off of the engine... you should be able to hear it popping on and off of the seat.

it could also be held open by another component in the vacuum chain, so try disconnecting it first, see if the idle changes.

while it's disconnected, and the engine is idling, put vacuum on it by sucking on the vacuum hose, and see if the idle changes... it should just about kill the motor.