thook

My '86 needs a new clutch for sure. That issue is resolved....the clutch was slipping. BUT, for a little while before the slipping began I had been having trouble shifting down from 3rd to 2nd when approaching a hill or a turn at +/-25mph. It was never a problem before to shift down at that approx. speed, but then I began having to slow all the way to 20mph or speed up in 3rd (for hills) or the gears would grind a bit. Does this have to do with the clutch beginning to go out or is it specifically related to the trans. and synchros? I'm doing the clutch job within the next couple of weeks, so I'd like to know if there are trans. issues I need to address while I'm the middle of it. Any info would be appreciated! Thanks!

thook

Okay, I just spoke with a mechanic and he says it definitely sounds like the 2nd gear synchro. Anyone else have an opinion?
On that note, can just that synchro be replaced or does the whole tranny have to be rebuilt? I've never done anything with transmissions before, so I don't know what I'm dealing with here. I'll be reading up on it, but if anyone cares to share their knowledge on this subject I would be grateful!

sleestak240

Before you let them play with your synchros, do a search here for a thing called a "shifter seat bushing." Tons of posts on the topic and it's always worth a look on a high mileage vehicle with shifting problems.

thook

Oh no, no one will be playing with synchros but me if I can help it, and that won't be addressed til further down the road when I have the cash for a rebuilt kit from Marlin. I've been through enough with mechanics (the ones I can afford, anyway!) before finally deciding to rebuild the top end of my '92 on my own.

The shifter seat bushing and the socket I'll be replacing when I do the clutch. Maybe that will solve the problem, maybe it won't....I don't think it will, though. I have read some posts already on the bushing and socket while researching the clutch. That's how I learned about it. But, from what I understand folks were replacing those because the shifter was popping out of gear. I may have misunderstood, but I think my symptoms are rather pointing to the synchros and not the bushing seeing as the syptoms are very specific relating only to 2nd gear and it's not popping out of gear. Am I wrong?

Nevertheless, as I am learning, replacing the bushing and socket is the thing to do at this stage. The '86 has 207k miles on it. So, thank you for bringing it up, sleestak!

MMA_Alex

several people have solved grinding while up/down shifting issues by replacing the bushings.

Its worth atleast looking at, because rebuilding the transmission is expensive, and replacing the bushing is cheap, and could solve the problem.

thook

REALLY!! Well, that's very, very, very....btw, did i say VERY?....encouraging. I guess I didn't see those posts. I certainly am not looking forward to a tranny job, to say the least. And I do hope this is the case...just a bushing and all. I'll certainly know soon enough. I'm getting the ones from Marlins site with the all new and improved materials.

Could you, would you mind referring me to the posts people have made that had success? I may not have been using the right keywords in my searching.
Thanks a bunch for telling me this!

Oh! Wait...I think I'll use the terms given by the kind gentleman above!

MMA_Alex

dont remember the terms exactly. I also just ordered the marlin bushings and will be replacing mine in a few weeks, altho I am not currently having any grinding issues.

I found a several page thread and towards the middle of it there were some posts about grinding when going into gear.

thook

Hmmm....okay, Alex. Thanks! I'll look for it. I've several threads so far, but nothing really informative, yet.

BTW, why are you replacing yours if your not having any grinding issues? Or are you having other issues?

MMA_Alex

they tend to fall apart, and the shifting isnt as definate as it ought to be.

both bushings shipped came to $20 and change so I figured what the heck. I was also planning on replacing the trans fluid, and its way easier to fill the trans from the shifter hole than pumping it in the fill hole. so I figured while im in there I might as well.

basically im trying to cover a bunch of maintnance items when im home from college for the christmas break.

thook

Really? I would have never thought that considering having to take the console apart and all..or do you? Also, how do you know when the tranny oil is full? Do you just leave the fill plug off when you're filling from up top?

MMA_Alex

theres not much to the console. I plan on leaving the fill plug open with the drain pan underneath, and also measuring the oil, and filling to capacity, and then checking that it is full through the fill hole.

sleestak240

Take a peek at this:
http://www.brian894x4.com/Shifter.html

thook

Thanks for the explanation, Alex. I will give that a go next time I need to change my gear oil. I'm even seriously considering switching to a GL-4 from the Mobil-1 GL-5 at that point. I am still skeptical it can make that much of a difference in the feel and smoothness, but everyone seems to think so...from what I read.

And thank you sleestak for the link. I found this part very interesting...

"but I did notice that a strange noise that I always heard in 5th gear
which sounded like constant gear whining was now gone."

Last summer I was having to haul water in a 300gal tank in a trailer (well pump died when well collapsed) and noticed a whining when I would take off in 1st. I was told it was probably the pilot bearing. Well, the sound went away when later, the following winter, I changed the gear oil. It hasn't come back, so that may have been the issue. But, there is still a faint whining that changes in pitch when I engage and disengage the clutch. I will be curious to see if that changes when I replacing the bushing.

Still, sleestak, they are pointing out that in most cases the shifter is popping out of gear and the article makes no mention of grinding. On the other hand, this bushing IS related to gear engagement, so I look forward to this still solving my problem. I'll just bet the bushing is in a million pieces under my shifter! Since I've had this vehicle from about 125k miles on, I really don't have a reference for feel in the shifter while in neutral and during shifting. But, I'm probably sitting on sloppiness and don't know it..lol! All will be known soon enough.

Thanks so much for the info fellas. I really appreciate it!

Any more input is still welcome, all. In the event changing the bushing doesn't halt the grinding I suppose it will mean synchros afterall. In that case, if anyone has ever rebuilt their own manual tranny is it that difficult of a job for someone inexperienced? I spoke with a fellow who has done his own auto work since he was a teen and said it was basically nuts and bolts with a complete kit. What do you all say?

Thanks!

MMA_Alex

taking apart the tranny isnt the hard part, its getting it back together.

when I take stuff apart I like to go slow, and take lots of pics for reference when putting everything back together.

A lot of people, including myself, recomend a gl-4 grade oil. I'm still not sure weather I will put in mobil-1, or redline mt-90. from what Ive read it looks like at 125k your bushing is probably in a million or so pieces, and the bushing should atleast make a noticable difference in shifting.

thook

Okay, so I'll post my results then go from there. Thanks for the input Alex! You too, sleestak!

Oh! One question....is this a time to change the rear main oil seal? I'm sure it's never been done on this rig. I'll be having to do the front main seal in the spring when I redo the harmonic balancer. Got a leak that continues to spew a bit on my alternator.

thook

And one more thing! Does anyone know of a good write-up on installing a new clutch. I look at the online PDF FSM and it's not real thorough. It doesn't go into pulling the drive line apart and all. I'm just looking for something that starts from the very beginning of the job.

thook

For future reference.....(for those who may stumble upon this thread during search)

The grinding is gone, bushing was completely shot. Now, just some stickiness in shifting. Finally going to try GL-4 despite my former skepticism. Put the new rear seal in when I did my clutch, but then it leaked....a lot! Leaking seems to have subsided, but I'm left with a nice thick coat of oil all inside the bell housing...and probably all over my pretty, new MC clutch. Bummer...

95TOYOTACO

hey great to hear the bushing helped!! I just got mine today and I am eager to get home and install!! Anything new that u came accross when u installed?? I have the right up printed off but was wondering if u came accross anything else?? Thanks

thook

Hey! Thanks! It's a good feeling when the runner is happy...as you shall soon see.

New? As in "new" what? Information? Discovery? The GL-4 made even more of a difference. Is that what you mean? The installation itself was easy enough. At first I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get the shifter knobs off. A couple of pipe wrenches took care of that. A strap wrench would have worked better, but I used a rag to keep from marring up the knobs and shifters. I did find that filling the tranny from the shifter holes is a lot easier than the standard method.....from the fill hole. I'm going to refill that way from now on.

Post up how your install goes, eh?

thook

Incidentally, I found what I thought was motor oil leaking from the rear seal was actually coolant having mixed with oil from the exterior of the block draining down a bit. When I'd jacked the motor to pull/install the tranny I had inadvertently pulled a heater hose loose. The coolant was mostly water (for various reasons), so I hadn't noticed much of the green. And the gunk inside the bellhousing was/is actually that I'd applied too much grease on the input shaft/throw out bearing....slung everywhere. Talk about relief!! Now I don't have to redo the seal. I know, I know...."but, the tranny is so much fun to remove and install!". Pfffftt... right!