Front vibration and grinding noise after first snow day
10-26-2009, 05:47 AM
#1
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Front vibration and grinding noise after first snow day
I have a 89 4runner IFS.
We had our first snow fall last week. It was slippery so I drove on 4HI all day long, except on pavement. 4x4 worked perfectly on that day and before.
The day after, all the snow melted so I was driving in 2wd and suddently the front right wheel began to make a LOUD grinding noise when I got over 30km/h. The entire truck was vibrating. Switched to 4wd, same noise. So I parked the truck and set the hubs to FREE.
No more grinding noise/vibration.
I removed the hub from the truck and took it apart since the dial wasn't turning by hand. Cleaned and greased everything and put it back on the truck : dial turns by hand but got the same grinding noise/vibration problem.
What's going on? When the hubs are unlocked, it makes no sound or vibration. If the hubs are locked, it makes the horrible grinding noise.
I'm thinking about a bad passenger side CV joint or axle. Does it makes sense?
Thanks guys.
Dan
We had our first snow fall last week. It was slippery so I drove on 4HI all day long, except on pavement. 4x4 worked perfectly on that day and before.
The day after, all the snow melted so I was driving in 2wd and suddently the front right wheel began to make a LOUD grinding noise when I got over 30km/h. The entire truck was vibrating. Switched to 4wd, same noise. So I parked the truck and set the hubs to FREE.
No more grinding noise/vibration.
I removed the hub from the truck and took it apart since the dial wasn't turning by hand. Cleaned and greased everything and put it back on the truck : dial turns by hand but got the same grinding noise/vibration problem.
What's going on? When the hubs are unlocked, it makes no sound or vibration. If the hubs are locked, it makes the horrible grinding noise.
I'm thinking about a bad passenger side CV joint or axle. Does it makes sense?
Thanks guys.
Dan
10-26-2009, 08:32 AM
#6
Registered User
Yup, the spindle bushing can get low on grease. So it'll make this really loud low pitch howling,annoying noise. Give me a second and ill post the link to show you how to make a tool to grease the hub/spindle without removing the cv.
10-26-2009, 08:33 AM
#7
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https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ctures-100327/
I found it was easier to make the plastic version.. Easy tool to make, only thing is its kinda hard to get it to seal to the hub while you pump grease since my gasket is halfarsed.
I found it was easier to make the plastic version.. Easy tool to make, only thing is its kinda hard to get it to seal to the hub while you pump grease since my gasket is halfarsed.
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10-26-2009, 10:32 AM
#9
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https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ctures-100327/
I found it was easier to make the plastic version.. Easy tool to make, only thing is its kinda hard to get it to seal to the hub while you pump grease since my gasket is halfarsed.
I found it was easier to make the plastic version.. Easy tool to make, only thing is its kinda hard to get it to seal to the hub while you pump grease since my gasket is halfarsed.
10-26-2009, 11:15 AM
#10
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This technique with a grease needle injector also worth a look:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=283617
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=283617
10-26-2009, 11:43 AM
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I only have a little problem:
The hub cover have 10mm bolts and the body have 6 12mm studs (i think). I can remove the hub cover but I can't get to remove the hub body.
The studs are so rusted on the bolts, I broke 2 already so I gave up before being in deep trouble. I use penetrating oil, wd-40 without success. Should I try to heat them ? They are already weak.
Is there any way to lube this without removing the hub ... i hate breaking studs !
Thanks everyone.
The hub cover have 10mm bolts and the body have 6 12mm studs (i think). I can remove the hub cover but I can't get to remove the hub body.
The studs are so rusted on the bolts, I broke 2 already so I gave up before being in deep trouble. I use penetrating oil, wd-40 without success. Should I try to heat them ? They are already weak.
Is there any way to lube this without removing the hub ... i hate breaking studs !
Thanks everyone.
10-26-2009, 12:15 PM
#12
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Do you mean the cone washers??
If so, the best way to free them is to back off the acorn nuts about half way and spray the studs & washers with PB Blaster the night before. You don't have to jack up the wheel just to remove the hubs (but you do to remove the rotors, of course.) Leave the nuts on there in case some of the cone washers release and try to go springing off into space (you should be so lucky).
The next day, pull the nuts off, respray with PB Blaster, and then hit the studs sharply straight-on using a brass drift and hammer. If you don't have a drift, screw the acorn nuts all the way on and then back them off an eighth inch or so, then use a twelve point socket that is one size smaller than the correct socket for the nut and hold that socket on top of the nut and hit it sharply with a hammer. You have to use the nut to protect the stud's threads from damage by the hammer, and you have to use the socket to protect the nut from damage. (Warning: if the socket is a cheap one, this may split it.)
If a few sharp strikes don't dislodge the cone washer, look for the split in the cone washer. Squeeze the sides of the washer with the smallest size vise-grips so that you're pinching the split together and wiggle it a bit.
One technique that reportedly works well is to use a very thin, narrow tapered punch, insert it into the cone's split and drive the punch in with a hammer strike. Apparently it causes the cone to pop right out. I don't have a punch like that or I'd try it.
The point is to avoid hammering on or deforming the cone washer - that won't help you, it will only ruin the washer. Likewise hammering on the side of the hub will damage it but it won't free the washers. If you find the washers are already damaged, buy some new ones from the dealer, but prepare yourself - they're expensive. To save yourself a lot of trouble next time, use a very thin coat of anti-sieze compound on the angled side and inside of the washers (but not the side facing the nut) before installing them.
I've heard of one person recommending hitting the stud with the brass drift at a bit of an angle to get a little side action, but that carries the risk of bending the stud and buggering up the threads. If you try it, I'd recommend having the acorn nut on there to protect the threads, not using over a 25 deg angle or so, and not hitting too hard.
If so, the best way to free them is to back off the acorn nuts about half way and spray the studs & washers with PB Blaster the night before. You don't have to jack up the wheel just to remove the hubs (but you do to remove the rotors, of course.) Leave the nuts on there in case some of the cone washers release and try to go springing off into space (you should be so lucky).
The next day, pull the nuts off, respray with PB Blaster, and then hit the studs sharply straight-on using a brass drift and hammer. If you don't have a drift, screw the acorn nuts all the way on and then back them off an eighth inch or so, then use a twelve point socket that is one size smaller than the correct socket for the nut and hold that socket on top of the nut and hit it sharply with a hammer. You have to use the nut to protect the stud's threads from damage by the hammer, and you have to use the socket to protect the nut from damage. (Warning: if the socket is a cheap one, this may split it.)
If a few sharp strikes don't dislodge the cone washer, look for the split in the cone washer. Squeeze the sides of the washer with the smallest size vise-grips so that you're pinching the split together and wiggle it a bit.
One technique that reportedly works well is to use a very thin, narrow tapered punch, insert it into the cone's split and drive the punch in with a hammer strike. Apparently it causes the cone to pop right out. I don't have a punch like that or I'd try it.
The point is to avoid hammering on or deforming the cone washer - that won't help you, it will only ruin the washer. Likewise hammering on the side of the hub will damage it but it won't free the washers. If you find the washers are already damaged, buy some new ones from the dealer, but prepare yourself - they're expensive. To save yourself a lot of trouble next time, use a very thin coat of anti-sieze compound on the angled side and inside of the washers (but not the side facing the nut) before installing them.
I've heard of one person recommending hitting the stud with the brass drift at a bit of an angle to get a little side action, but that carries the risk of bending the stud and buggering up the threads. If you try it, I'd recommend having the acorn nut on there to protect the threads, not using over a 25 deg angle or so, and not hitting too hard.
10-26-2009, 02:40 PM
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Thanks for the recommandations sb5, it will be helpful when I'll be at this stage.
Here's my current problem, there's already 2 broken studs (the other one is not visible in the picture). I did not apply alot of pressure with the ratchet, it wasnt forced so I fear all of the studs are weak...
Here's my current problem, there's already 2 broken studs (the other one is not visible in the picture). I did not apply alot of pressure with the ratchet, it wasnt forced so I fear all of the studs are weak...
10-26-2009, 04:38 PM
#14
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Oh, now I see.
I can see where the stud sheared that there is a good bit of corrosion there. Can you get PB Blaster in Quebec? It is far more effective than WD-40. You just have to let it soak overnight.
Then before trying to remove the nut, use a socket just big enough to fit over the stud and a hammer to hit the nut a bunch of times. Not too hard, just enough to set up a vibration. It may break it loose some. Also remove the black cover so you make sure your socket is on straight (which you probably did).
But if still frozen, then yes, I would try heating the nuts.
Since your acorn nuts have been replaced with regular open ones, the advice in the earlier post about protecting the studs with the nuts won't apply exactly. You could try screwing two nuts on the stud and hit those with a socket - that will spread the force out over more threads. But it would probably be best if you can obtain a brass drift when you go after those cone washers.
Bonne chance!
I can see where the stud sheared that there is a good bit of corrosion there. Can you get PB Blaster in Quebec? It is far more effective than WD-40. You just have to let it soak overnight.
Then before trying to remove the nut, use a socket just big enough to fit over the stud and a hammer to hit the nut a bunch of times. Not too hard, just enough to set up a vibration. It may break it loose some. Also remove the black cover so you make sure your socket is on straight (which you probably did).
But if still frozen, then yes, I would try heating the nuts.
Since your acorn nuts have been replaced with regular open ones, the advice in the earlier post about protecting the studs with the nuts won't apply exactly. You could try screwing two nuts on the stud and hit those with a socket - that will spread the force out over more threads. But it would probably be best if you can obtain a brass drift when you go after those cone washers.
Bonne chance!
10-26-2009, 08:21 PM
#16
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yea, he'll just have to get a extractor bit.
on other news, i picked up one of those grase needles at my friends partstore yesterday and just saw that thread.. wow it seems easier then making the tool i did. i still havent done the other side so ill use the needle and see howit goes.
on other news, i picked up one of those grase needles at my friends partstore yesterday and just saw that thread.. wow it seems easier then making the tool i did. i still havent done the other side so ill use the needle and see howit goes.
10-27-2009, 04:36 AM
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If these studs are replaceable, then no problem... I though they were welder to the hub or something...
Well there's a guy in another forum that greased the bushing by removing only the hub cover and unscrewing the bolt at the end of the shaft. Then he proceeded to have someone pulling on the shaft so he could grease it from the hub side with a needle.
I think I'll try that.
Well there's a guy in another forum that greased the bushing by removing only the hub cover and unscrewing the bolt at the end of the shaft. Then he proceeded to have someone pulling on the shaft so he could grease it from the hub side with a needle.
I think I'll try that.
10-30-2009, 07:58 PM
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These studs will break easily as they are not all that large.
Heat the nuts a bit with a torch. This will make them grow,
relative to the stud, and they will come right off. You can
heat them after soaking them if you are careful about the
fire hazard. Heating nuts to get them to break free
without breaking off is routine on my Toy, especially on the
exhaust manifold.
On assembly, use anti-seize and proper torque.
You can also switch to the factory acorn nuts,
covering the threads at least from one side.
You will actually have a lot of stud sticking out
after you remove the hub. Heat the area
the stud is stuck in a little and remove it with
vice grips. If you can do this you won't
have to test your drill centering skills.
The best heat source is an oxy-acetelene
torch, or a little oxy-map gas unit. You
can get the nut heated, or the area around
the stud heated, and get the thing off/out
before too much heat soaks where you don't
want it.
Eugene
Heat the nuts a bit with a torch. This will make them grow,
relative to the stud, and they will come right off. You can
heat them after soaking them if you are careful about the
fire hazard. Heating nuts to get them to break free
without breaking off is routine on my Toy, especially on the
exhaust manifold.
On assembly, use anti-seize and proper torque.
You can also switch to the factory acorn nuts,
covering the threads at least from one side.
You will actually have a lot of stud sticking out
after you remove the hub. Heat the area
the stud is stuck in a little and remove it with
vice grips. If you can do this you won't
have to test your drill centering skills.
The best heat source is an oxy-acetelene
torch, or a little oxy-map gas unit. You
can get the nut heated, or the area around
the stud heated, and get the thing off/out
before too much heat soaks where you don't
want it.
Eugene
Thanks for the recommandations sb5, it will be helpful when I'll be at this stage.
Here's my current problem, there's already 2 broken studs (the other one is not visible in the picture). I did not apply alot of pressure with the ratchet, it wasnt forced so I fear all of the studs are weak...
Here's my current problem, there's already 2 broken studs (the other one is not visible in the picture). I did not apply alot of pressure with the ratchet, it wasnt forced so I fear all of the studs are weak...
Last edited by eugenedbrooksiii; 10-30-2009 at 08:12 PM.
10-30-2009, 08:24 PM
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Stick a piece of plastic or wood in the keyway so the threads
will crush it a little and seal the keyway. You still get to service
the wheel bearings normally.
will crush it a little and seal the keyway. You still get to service
the wheel bearings normally.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ctures-100327/
I found it was easier to make the plastic version.. Easy tool to make, only thing is its kinda hard to get it to seal to the hub while you pump grease since my gasket is halfarsed.
I found it was easier to make the plastic version.. Easy tool to make, only thing is its kinda hard to get it to seal to the hub while you pump grease since my gasket is halfarsed.
10-30-2009, 10:46 PM
#20
Registered User
uhhh..
take some PVC and find the size that fits on the spindle, put a cap on it, and put in a greease zerk fitting on the cap...
load the little thing of PVC tubing with grease, then pump more in until you see some come out the dust boot on the other side..
take some PVC and find the size that fits on the spindle, put a cap on it, and put in a greease zerk fitting on the cap...
load the little thing of PVC tubing with grease, then pump more in until you see some come out the dust boot on the other side..
