Front Brake Upgrade
10-17-2008, 05:22 PM
#21
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yes I am, no I'm not and yes I was, but no I didn't although I could've been...
okay maybe I did. there... any other questions?
okay maybe I did. there... any other questions?
Last edited by abecedarian; 10-17-2008 at 05:25 PM.
10-17-2008, 05:24 PM
#22
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10-17-2008, 05:29 PM
#23
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actually, I use it for work. I work on cell sites.
I've had it for about 2 years now, and most of it's life, since I've had it at least, has been on pavement, but a good portion of where it has to be able to go is fire-road at best, and often washed out roads.
but technically, I haven't 'wheeled' it, I suppose, at least not for recreation.
I've had it for about 2 years now, and most of it's life, since I've had it at least, has been on pavement, but a good portion of where it has to be able to go is fire-road at best, and often washed out roads.
but technically, I haven't 'wheeled' it, I suppose, at least not for recreation.
10-17-2008, 05:38 PM
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luv mine! 1600 for the truck, 1000 for rims and tires, 400 for the lift (+250 for the new springs to replace the blocks).
I know it'll get me where I have to go... but if it can't it'll get me back out so I can call for a dozer.
I know it'll get me where I have to go... but if it can't it'll get me back out so I can call for a dozer.
10-19-2008, 07:35 PM
#26
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10-19-2008, 07:37 PM
#27
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A larger diameter MC requires more brake pedal pressure (or more boost) to provide the same clamping force as a smaller diameter MC.
Fred
10-19-2008, 07:38 PM
#28
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10-20-2008, 03:39 AM
#30
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This is true, but a larger MC also pushes more volume so the pedal travel is less. Makes the driver feel like something is happening long before the pedal reaches the floor. I upgraded my MC in my old 83 pickup to the 1" bore with the newer style calipers (90's V6) and it stopped great.
10-20-2008, 04:33 PM
#31
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1" MC from a 89-95 V6 truck/4runner
V6 style calipers from 89-95 truck/4runner
adjust LSPV
Thats what i did to my 87, stops considerably better than before.
V6 style calipers from 89-95 truck/4runner
adjust LSPV
Thats what i did to my 87, stops considerably better than before.
10-20-2008, 04:35 PM
#32
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10-20-2008, 04:38 PM
#33
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This is true, but a larger MC also pushes more volume so the pedal travel is less. Makes the driver feel like something is happening long before the pedal reaches the floor. I upgraded my MC in my old 83 pickup to the 1" bore with the newer style calipers (90's V6) and it stopped great.
All things else the same, changing to a larger bore MC will require MORE leg pressure to stop the same as before the change.
It's not the volume of fluid that stops the vehicle, it's the pressure.
Larger bore = less pressure in the brake system with the same pedal pressure.
Fred
10-21-2008, 03:22 PM
#34
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Can you provide a link or some kind of evidence showing that these rotors reduce performance?
Here's what I found:
Upgrading Brakes
I ran HD brake pads from NWOR on stock rotors for a few years and when it was time to change out pads I decided to buy the new rotors also. After installing the new rotors and new pads, the braking power was better than HD pads on stock rotors.
Last edited by Toyvana; 10-21-2008 at 03:37 PM.
10-21-2008, 03:34 PM
#35
The benefit of all those little holes is cooling. Hot brake rotors mean brake fade and boiling brake fluid both of which reduce brake performance.
10-21-2008, 04:08 PM
#36
As far as stainless steel brake lines vs rubber lines, there are cases of both failing. Stainless seem to keep the lines from expanding under pressure, hence why we use stainless pressure lines on our $20 million dollar Photolithography machines @ work instead of plain old rubber lines.
10-22-2008, 05:16 PM
#37
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Toyvana, yes I can provide a lot of links but lets work on how brakes work first 
Matt16 wrote:
A. Simply not true at all.
B. Those "little holes" were never meant or used for cooling.
Back in the "dark ages" before brake pads had much engineering behind them, they use to outgas (produce gas when they got hot) like crazy, and the "little holes" were to allow the gas somewhere to escape.
That's simply not a problem these days with anything that you're likely to drive.
ocdropzone wrote:
Because they increase the "boost", thus the pressure through better engineering.
Do you understand some of the simply principles of fluid hydraulics ?
ocdropzone wrote:
A. They don't dissipate heat better. More holes = less mass = LESS heat sink.
B. The rubber brake lines in current braking systems aren't "plain old rubber lines".
You should do yourself a favor and cut one open some time and take a look at it.
There is simply no expansion on the rubber brake lines at the pressures that most brake systems operate, even those with hydroboost.
Toyvana, why do you think cross-drilling would help with braking ?
Remember that surface area and mass are both huge factors in the overall braking performance.
Fred
Matt16 wrote:
AFriction (stopping power) is a function of pressure, area and coefficient of friction. If you drill holes in the rotors, there's less are, but more pressure on the remaining area, thus about the same braking force.
BThe benefit of all those little holes is cooling. Hot brake rotors mean brake fade and boiling brake fluid both of which reduce brake performance.
BThe benefit of all those little holes is cooling. Hot brake rotors mean brake fade and boiling brake fluid both of which reduce brake performance.
B. Those "little holes" were never meant or used for cooling.
Back in the "dark ages" before brake pads had much engineering behind them, they use to outgas (produce gas when they got hot) like crazy, and the "little holes" were to allow the gas somewhere to escape.
That's simply not a problem these days with anything that you're likely to drive.
ocdropzone wrote:
than why would a vehicle manufacturer over the life of a product increase the bore diameter of a MC?
Do you understand some of the simply principles of fluid hydraulics ?
ocdropzone wrote:
ASupporting documentation? Are you sure they that don't help to dissapate heat and therefore reduce brake fade?
BAs far as stainless steel brake lines vs rubber lines, there are cases of both failing. Stainless seem to keep the lines from expanding under pressure, hence why we use stainless pressure lines on our $20 million dollar Photolithography machines @ work instead of plain old rubber lines.
BAs far as stainless steel brake lines vs rubber lines, there are cases of both failing. Stainless seem to keep the lines from expanding under pressure, hence why we use stainless pressure lines on our $20 million dollar Photolithography machines @ work instead of plain old rubber lines.
B. The rubber brake lines in current braking systems aren't "plain old rubber lines".
You should do yourself a favor and cut one open some time and take a look at it.
There is simply no expansion on the rubber brake lines at the pressures that most brake systems operate, even those with hydroboost.
Toyvana, why do you think cross-drilling would help with braking ?
Remember that surface area and mass are both huge factors in the overall braking performance.
Fred
10-22-2008, 08:44 PM
#38
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Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only change from potential to kinetic and back again....
1- crossdrilling rotors in and of itself does nothing other than reduce the contact area between the pads and rotor which 'technically' reduces the effectiveness of the brakes.
2- crossdrilling rotors CAN increase the heat transfer from the rotor to the air thus increasing the efficiency of transference of energy from forward momentum of the vehicle to heat dispersed to the atmosphere (a significant contributor to global warming if I may add)... which technically increases the effectiveness of the brake system.
ummmm
1- crossdrilling rotors in and of itself does nothing other than reduce the contact area between the pads and rotor which 'technically' reduces the effectiveness of the brakes.
2- crossdrilling rotors CAN increase the heat transfer from the rotor to the air thus increasing the efficiency of transference of energy from forward momentum of the vehicle to heat dispersed to the atmosphere (a significant contributor to global warming if I may add)... which technically increases the effectiveness of the brake system.
ummmm
Last edited by abecedarian; 10-22-2008 at 08:45 PM.
10-22-2008, 11:11 PM
#39
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only change from potential to kinetic and back again....
1- crossdrilling rotors in and of itself does nothing other than reduce the contact area between the pads and rotor which 'technically' reduces the effectiveness of the brakes.
2- crossdrilling rotors CAN increase the heat transfer from the rotor to the air thus increasing the efficiency of transference of energy from forward momentum of the vehicle to heat dispersed to the atmosphere (a significant contributor to global warming if I may add)... which technically increases the effectiveness of the brake system.
ummmm
1- crossdrilling rotors in and of itself does nothing other than reduce the contact area between the pads and rotor which 'technically' reduces the effectiveness of the brakes.
2- crossdrilling rotors CAN increase the heat transfer from the rotor to the air thus increasing the efficiency of transference of energy from forward momentum of the vehicle to heat dispersed to the atmosphere (a significant contributor to global warming if I may add)... which technically increases the effectiveness of the brake system.
ummmm
2- Don't brake for squirrels, it kills the environment.
10-23-2008, 12:19 AM
#40
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Toyvana, yes I can provide a lot of links but lets work on how brakes work first
Matt16 wrote:
A. Simply not true at all.
B. Those "little holes" were never meant or used for cooling.
Back in the "dark ages" before brake pads had much engineering behind them, they use to outgas (produce gas when they got hot) like crazy, and the "little holes" were to allow the gas somewhere to escape.
That's simply not a problem these days with anything that you're likely to drive.
ocdropzone wrote:
Because they increase the "boost", thus the pressure through better engineering.
Do you understand some of the simply principles of fluid hydraulics ?
ocdropzone wrote:
A. They don't dissipate heat better. More holes = less mass = LESS heat sink.
B. The rubber brake lines in current braking systems aren't "plain old rubber lines".
You should do yourself a favor and cut one open some time and take a look at it.
There is simply no expansion on the rubber brake lines at the pressures that most brake systems operate, even those with hydroboost.
Toyvana, why do you think cross-drilling would help with braking ?
Remember that surface area and mass are both huge factors in the overall braking performance.
Fred
Matt16 wrote:
A. Simply not true at all.
B. Those "little holes" were never meant or used for cooling.
Back in the "dark ages" before brake pads had much engineering behind them, they use to outgas (produce gas when they got hot) like crazy, and the "little holes" were to allow the gas somewhere to escape.
That's simply not a problem these days with anything that you're likely to drive.
ocdropzone wrote:
Because they increase the "boost", thus the pressure through better engineering.
Do you understand some of the simply principles of fluid hydraulics ?
ocdropzone wrote:
A. They don't dissipate heat better. More holes = less mass = LESS heat sink.
B. The rubber brake lines in current braking systems aren't "plain old rubber lines".
You should do yourself a favor and cut one open some time and take a look at it.
There is simply no expansion on the rubber brake lines at the pressures that most brake systems operate, even those with hydroboost.
Toyvana, why do you think cross-drilling would help with braking ?
Remember that surface area and mass are both huge factors in the overall braking performance.
Fred
Lol, where are the links please?
Your first point, yes, brakes used to outgas much worse than they do now. But they do still gas under hard braking.
But as other people have pointed out, slotted and/or cross drilled rotors help with cooling. Although crossdrilled rotors tend to crack more often.
They do cool off better because there is more surface area exposed to the air. With crossdrilled rotors it allows even more surface area to the air.
Despite what you think, there is HUGE amount of flex in those lines under braking. Lift up your truck and just have a buddy hit the break while you watch the rubber lines. You can watch them move and flex. Stainless steel braided lines do not flex at all. Theres a reason why they run hard brakes lines as much as possible.
Even a tiny amount of bulging is going to have a large effect on your braking power because it's that much less energy being used to push the pads on the rotor.
If crossdrilled/slotted rotors did nothing everybody would stop making them.
While slotted rotors are more effective, drilled rotors serve the same purpose. They are just more prone to crack.
So, all those links to back up what your saying please. I would love to read them!
