rusty87

Let me start From the beginning. I rolled my '88 22re, deluxe, auto, x-tra cab with 31x10.50 A/Ts. It was getting consistent 19 mpg and no check engine codes. The new truck i purchased is an '87 22re, SR-5, 5spd, x- tra cab. It had no motor, no engine harness and no ecu. I pulled the motor with engine harness all attached and installed it in the '87.
So, 88 engine, 88 engine harness, 88 ecu. 87 cab and 87 truck harness. same 31x10.50 A/Ts.
Engine now has a bad miss/hesitation between 2000-3000 rpm, and I can smell that it is running rich but no black smoke. Also had to advance the timing to get it to run "better"- still not good though. and now 17mpg.
CEC 21 (O2), 24 (intake air temp), 31 (AFM)
New TPS, and O2 sensor. Beck Arnley-cap, rotor, and wires. NGK plugs (not platinum)
I took it to Safari ltd toyota specialists and they swapped several different AFMs and several ECUs and several Coil/igniters. They spent two days working on it with no change in performance.
I blocked off EGR at the intake manifold- no change.
Pulled neg battery cable and EFI fuse over night-Same CECs
Newb to this forum but not to these trucks.

rusty87

anything?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hmmmm. No expert, but I seem to remember that the 88 Resistance for the Injectors is different from the 87, quite a bit. Not enough to stop it from running, but possibly to make it rich?

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's 85-87 have a different resistance value on a few things than the 88. Sorry, I'm multi-tasking so I might not have made much sense... or maybe I missed the point all together? lol. Sorry, if so.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Not sure that only changing to this current truck harness from the 87 would cause a problem, considering you're using the same 88 ECU, Engine and Harness. Hmmm, trippy.

I know that my buddy rolled his truck, causing the motor to drain oil into the TPS. He chased his tail for a while and then swapped out with an extra TPS he had and really cleaned out the oil and VOILA, ...solved. Couldn't a saturated TPS cause some of these issues? Especially hesitation?

swampfox

Have you compared the wiring diagrams on the two trucks, to see if there might be a difference ? I think they are the same ,but there is a difference between 86 and 88 injectors, so there might be a difference in the cab wiring on the 87 if it was a transition truck.

rusty87

update: mpg in town is 14-15. TPS is new. Everything engine related is 88: engine harness, injectors, injector resistor, and ECU. I dont think its injectors. I have both wiring diagrams and the only thing that I see that could make a difference is the O2 sensor. 88 is 4 wire because it is farther down stream so it has a heater circuit. 87 is single wire, no heater, and on the manifold. I am using the 87 O2 because the 87 cab harness does not have provisions for 4 wire O2. The 88 (4 wire) has a wire on the same pin of the ECU as the 87 so I think the 88 ECU will read the 87 O2. correct me if I am wrong.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Can only share my 'experience'.......... It's slightly different, but here it is, anyhow(PS> I posted it all, already.... power went out RIGHT before hitting enter! DOH! lol)

1. When I was trying and trying to figure out my bad miss, etc.... I tried a different ECU. Problem seemed a TINY bit better, but I kept getting CEL codes. (O2, Knock Sensor and AFM)

2. After a guy I know, the foreman mechanic at Torrance Toyota Dealership, told me "Get the Original ECU,....I don't think this is from an 87". He was right.. The sticker had worn off and we couldn't be sure. Put the original back in and NO MORE codes. Also, that ECU was giving me codes like an 88 and Up ECU would.. Not the simple "up to 13" or whatever it is that they are limited to.

3. It turned out to be that the 88 ECU WOULD NOT work properly with the 87 O2, because it was, in fact, looking for a heated one... Or at the very least for a different pattern and voltage value. It was REALLY sucking gas while that 88 ECU was in, too.

I was told by a SERIOUSLY respected 22re Guru(the one who FINALLY diagnosed my issue as a bad CAM through propane tests, etc.), that "I could get a 91-94(somewhere in there) Heated O2 Sensor and it would work fine. All I had to do was hook the single wire to the given 'reading' single wire in the harness.... then the Red to a switched power source, and the white to a good ground." I was also told by him that "he'd done it, many times... but not recently, so he couldn't remember the exact year".

I'm planning to do this, myself, as my O2 is further back because of the LCE set up I have. I'm going to do a lil research, and I'll check back to see if you find anything as well.

Best wishes,

Mark

rusty87

Thanks chef.
I read your thread before i posted. Up to page 6 anyway, when you put a new ecu in and it ran right. It sounds exactly like the way mine was running. My question is: is your truck all 87 and somehow it got an 88 ecu in it? I keep hearing that an 87 ecu wont work with my 88 injectors. The shop that worked on my truck in colorado told me they swapped several ecus with no change. Codes should not carry over to a different ecu (how could they?) I am back in kansas and I have a friend with tons of toyota parts and I am going to see if he has an 87 ecu I can try, just to be sure.
Also, it is driveable right now as long as I am delicate with the throttle- If I give it to much gas it stumbles and sputters. I have the timing set at 12 deg, otherwise it will barely even run, but it still pings pretty bad.

xxxtreme22r

if it pings it usually means 1 of 3 things, timing too far advanced or low fuel or in the case of the 22re the knock sensor not backing timing down. Very rare cases does it mean too high compression caused by carbon build up on pistons.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Rusty...

My truck is 87, and I pulled my original ECU to try another... We thought it was an 87 ECU... we were wrong. It was an 88. The reason I point that out? That 88 ECU would NOT work right with the OEM 87 02 Sensor I run... it would ALWAYS throw a code over 2000 rpm... Eventually, at times, it would go away. Eventually as well, it developed a Knock Sensor Code along the way while I was using it for a few weeks. THAT, Rusty, is another reason I thought this might make a difference... But it seems you're using the 88 Knock Sensor with the 88 ECU....

Maybe it's just freaking out because it's looking for readings from a Heated O2 Sensor(which, from what I understand, is what the 88 needs)....but which would also have me curious as to ....How did you wire up that 87 single wire O2 to a 4 Wire HEATED 88 02 sensor? Maybe you could fill in that blank?________ < You're answer, there, hahaha. I guess maybe your 88 didn't have a Heated O2? And, if you DID have a heated O2 before, .... maybe X or others would know, ... "would it, or COULD IT cause the KSensor to freak out?" I wouldn't think so.

There are tests in the FSM for testing the Knock Sensor properly.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

PS> I had some REALLY weird stuff going on... Just ask X and others...

I could run the timing anywhere from 5* to 25* BTDC... and NO PINGING! It would actually run faster at 20* and up to 45* BTDC!!! That was because, the CAM WAS LUNCH MEAT! lol.... Somehow, it was causing a wide range to work, but NOT REALLY WORK, ya know? I was missing like a couple gremlins were having an all out 'TO THE DEATH' war under my hood!

Not saying it's likely, but maybe you have some 'mechanical' things going on. Just verify everything you can within the EFI, Emissions and Ignition and ECU systems.... and then go from there.

Can't remember, sorry... is it running without any huge missing at idle?

rusty87

I am using the 87 O2 because the 87 cab harness does not have provisions for 4 wire O2. I dont know how to the quote thing.
the 88 truck that the engine came out of did have four wire. O2 sensor is on the cab harness not engine harness that is why I have single wire O2.
i certainly appreciate the input and keep it coming.
The reason that i dont think I have a mechanical issue is that after i got the truck back on the wheels it ran perfect (in the 88 truck) with no codes. I drove it ten miles back to my friends house with smashed roof and no glass. The issue began after I started it in the 87 truck.
It is pinging due to the advanced timing. It wont run on factory timing reccomendation.

rusty87

It idles good. Starts easy. 130k on motor. new timing chain, guides and gears. new head gasket and exhaust gaskests. new cap, rotor, plugs, wires. new tps.
The issue is running rich, poor mileage, check engine codes, poor acceleration.
With the timing advanced and egr blocked it is missing at around 1500-2500 rpm.
It is drivable but noticeably underpowered compared to how it ran in the old truck right before I pulled it.

ExB16ner

did you try TPS check?

ExB16ner

My engine was running like crap after build up, took me a month to narrow it down to malfanctioned TPS

cjsgarage

you absolutely need to pull those 4 wires from your 88 truck, even if it means cutting up the body harness, and putting them into the 87. you might have even damaged the signal circuit inside the computer, but unlikely.

if it ran good before and doesn't now, and the only change is the 02, I would start there.
In order of most to least affective of fuel trims it goes TPS, engine coolant temperature sensor and then 02 sensor.

isn't pinging normally caused by too lean, not too rich? is that timing really that advanced?