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I'm about $2k into my 22R-E to 5VZ-FE swap, and I fully believe this was the best route. Even though I miss the 22R-E, I just remember the highway on-ramps and towing my trailer.
As for wiring, it was fairly easy. I just matched wiring diagrams, and came up with a simple wiring harness to go between the body and engine. And if you only want the engine to run (no dash), it's a lot easier. If you need help with this, let me know. I have wiring diagrams from 93 22R-E and 96-97 5VZ-FE.
But if you're heart is set on the dear old four-banger, go for it. Like everyone has said, this engine is not meant for power. It'll last forever, but at 110 HP forever.
Now if you REALLY want a "fun" project: go high compression with propane. Not propane injection, but actually running the truck on propane. I looked into this, and found it to be very doable. Propane likes higher compression, as it is about 100+ octane equivalent.
How much and where did you source your engine/trans? Did you have to beef up the front suspension to deal with the added weight? Like I had said, I had considered a 3.4 swap, but the fact that I needed a new tranny AND front suspension AND had to change almost everything under the dash is what killed me.
Who's done builds with propane? What are the benefits and cons? Seems like more work than its worth if you live next to a station that sells E85, or am I wrong?
You make it seem like propane is useful for its resist to pre-ignition correct? But is it more potent than E85?
Thank you for the ideas, and advice. Maybe there's some hope for a 3.4 swap or a propane/E85 High-comp or stroker build...
Reliability, Suspension and Armour. Put your money there.
Suggestions for each? Whats a good reliability mod? Who does good suspension for some wheeling while allowing me to still drive on highways without dying? Who makes good armor?
How much and where did you source your engine/trans? Did you have to beef up the front suspension to deal with the added weight? Like I had said, I had considered a 3.4 swap, but the fact that I needed a new tranny AND front suspension AND had to change almost everything under the dash is what killed me.
Who's done builds with propane? What are the benefits and cons? Seems like more work than its worth if you live next to a station that sells E85, or am I wrong?
You make it seem like propane is useful for its resist to pre-ignition correct? But is it more potent than E85?
Thank you for the ideas, and advice. Maybe there's some hope for a 3.4 swap or a propane/E85 High-comp or stroker build...
I bought a 4Runner from a friend (minus the transmission). I had already swapped in an R151 behind the 22R-E, so I just needed an R150 bellhousing. Also, these trucks came with a V6, so no front suspension upgrades are required.
Everything under the dash pretty much stays the same. The only thing different is adding a 10k resistor to compensate for the 4-cyl vs 6-cyl tachometer output. Speed, oil, water, battery, etc are all the same signal, just a different pin.
Just remember: E-85 holds moisture. I think they are about the same "potency" (propane has about the same energy density as gasoline/E85)
Propane never goes bad, it's a LOT cleaner burning, longer intervals between oil changes, can run at any angle (no spilling), and can fill up at a lot more places than E-85. Most propane kits are dual-fuel, so you can keep a smaller gasoline tank for starting and extended range, and run most of the time on propane.
I'm full of ideas, and I'm glad someone is actually interested in them, haha. No problem, and check out my 3.4 swap thread (or the 3.4 swap sub-forum), there are TONS of ideas there. If you need help, let me know. It can be difficult, as there's almost too much information.
I bought a 4Runner from a friend (minus the transmission). I had already swapped in an R151 behind the 22R-E, so I just needed an R150 bellhousing. Also, these trucks came with a V6, so no front suspension upgrades are required.
Everything under the dash pretty much stays the same. The only thing different is adding a 10k resistor to compensate for the 4-cyl vs 6-cyl tachometer output. Speed, oil, water, battery, etc are all the same signal, just a different pin.
Just remember: E-85 holds moisture. I think they are about the same "potency" (propane has about the same energy density as gasoline/E85)
Propane never goes bad, it's a LOT cleaner burning, longer intervals between oil changes, can run at any angle (no spilling), and can fill up at a lot more places than E-85. Most propane kits are dual-fuel, so you can keep a smaller gasoline tank for starting and extended range, and run most of the time on propane.
I'm full of ideas, and I'm glad someone is actually interested in them, haha. No problem, and check out my 3.4 swap thread (or the 3.4 swap sub-forum), there are TONS of ideas there. If you need help, let me know. It can be difficult, as there's almost too much information.
Now that you've cleared that up I'm half tempted to build the junk motor, sell it for a good profit and do a 3.4 swap! I was convinced by other fourms that you HAD to update the front suspension because the 3.4 is heavy compared to the 22R.
If its mostly plug and play, adapter harness, minimal dash work, and a motor/tranny swap maybe that'ds something to look into.
I wont shy away from hard work I just also wouldn't want the truck down for months while I have to make a wiring harness or fab up my own mounts. Based on what your telling me and the kits around, it sounds like I may not have to.
So seems like I've heard the only way to build the 22R is stock, anything else would be a waste of money for my application, and to get the type of preformance I'm looking for I should do a swap, or forced induction (22reT franken-motor with the engine in the truck currently? A work buddy does have a 22RET for me to copy).
I'm interested to hear what ideas you have, after all I came looking for sensible input, ideas, and lots of information and it sounds like you've got that.
For the 3.4 swap, if you have everything ready to go, it should be about a 1-2 week downtime. Here are some things I've learned doing my swap:
-The biggest drawback is fabbing new exhaust (not difficult) and getting drivelines re-sized.
-Chilkat makes 3.4 adapter plates for 22R-E motor mounts, so that is bolt-in (plus a bit of welding for the lower support).
-There are wiring harnesses available for purchase, but it's not terribly hard to make your own (assuming you have the full 3.4 harness).
-A battery-intake swap should be done beforehand, because of the air box placement on the 3.4. This is common, and is a good weekend project for the 22R-E
-You'll probably need a body lift if you want to keep everything under the hood. I have a 2-inch, you could also get away with a 1.5-inch
-To keep the shifters in their normal location, use an R150 transmission. The shifters on an R151 are too far forward (doable, but a bit of fab work is needed = more downtime)
-Adding a short-throw lever (Marlin Crawler makes a great one) will help with moving the lever up with a body lift.
-You'll need to lengthen the rear O2 sensor wires about a foot.
-I removed my air conditioning prior to this swap. You might want to do the actual swap in the winter, adding AC after everything is installed and empty.
I'm not rooting for one or the other, but you will have more downtime with a 3.4 swap. I can certainly help with planning to minimize downtime if you want. If you were close by, I might even swing by to help out (once my swap is done, haha).
For the 3.4 swap, if you have everything ready to go, it should be about a 1-2 week downtime. Here are some things I've learned doing my swap:
-The biggest drawback is fabbing new exhaust (not difficult) and getting drivelines re-sized.
-Chilkat makes 3.4 adapter plates for 22R-E motor mounts, so that is bolt-in (plus a bit of welding for the lower support).
-There are wiring harnesses available for purchase, but it's not terribly hard to make your own (assuming you have the full 3.4 harness).
-A battery-intake swap should be done beforehand, because of the air box placement on the 3.4. This is common, and is a good weekend project for the 22R-E
-You'll probably need a body lift if you want to keep everything under the hood. I have a 2-inch, you could also get away with a 1.5-inch
-To keep the shifters in their normal location, use an R150 transmission. The shifters on an R151 are too far forward (doable, but a bit of fab work is needed = more downtime)
-Adding a short-throw lever (Marlin Crawler makes a great one) will help with moving the lever up with a body lift.
-You'll need to lengthen the rear O2 sensor wires about a foot.
-I removed my air conditioning prior to this swap. You might want to do the actual swap in the winter, adding AC after everything is installed and empty.
I'm not rooting for one or the other, but you will have more downtime with a 3.4 swap. I can certainly help with planning to minimize downtime if you want. If you were close by, I might even swing by to help out (once my swap is done, haha).
I think right now is still the deciding stage, I'm not very pro- anything currently, more surveying the depths of my ability, and others suggestions.
I live in the bay area, I'm not sure if thats near you at all.
I appreciate that information, just the simple bullets you gave are extremely helpful! I'd love to hear any other ideas!
Also, refresh my memory on what you mean by body lift? and is it an absolute necessity?
I'm near A bay... probably not THE bay (SF, I'm assuming).
I'll take a look this week while installing some new parts, making note of anything else I find useful.
Originally Posted by L5wolvesf
I've read about the 3.4 conversion but If I were to got through a conversion I think I would go with the Lexus V8.
Too much work. It requires a lot more exhaust work, possible radiator relocation, firewall modification, and steering clearancing. There is a LOT more downtime with this swap.
But if you have the time and space, it's a nice swap.
Last time I looked, 5VZFE donor vehicles were still pretty expensive to buy. The other day I looked at Craigslist and saw four Lexus LS400 cars in my area with the 1UZFE engine with asking prices at around $500. I converted the 22R in my '84 xtra cab to 22RE and now I am in the middle of a 3VZE rebuild with another on the back burner. I'm thinking I'll skip over the 5VZFE and make my next project a 1UZFE swap into a first gen 4runner. 260 hp sounds like a lot more fun than 190 hp and I think it will probably cost me considerably less than the other options. I am even thinking that once I get to know this engine I'm going to want to a get car that has it as well. Something like the Lexus GS 400. I hear that you can run a single turbo, low boost setup, on the early 1UZFE without the need for any internal engine mods, on the stock ECU, and make about 360 hp. And if 360 hp's not enough, an aftermarket ECU and more fuel are about all that is needed to take this engine to about 500 hp.
Considering that I could probably buy a late '90s GS400 and an eBay turbo kit for less than the price of an LC engineering 22R crate motor, it seems almost irresponsible not to do it.
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Last edited by wrenchtech; 09-09-2017 at 09:59 PM.
Last time I looked, 5VZFE donor vehicles were still pretty expensive to buy. The other day I looked at Craigslist and saw four Lexus LS400 cars in my area with the 1UZFE engine with asking prices at around $500. I converted the 22R in my '84 xtra cab to 22RE and now I am in the middle of a 3VZE rebuild with another on the back burner. I'm thinking I'll skip over the 5VZFE and make my next project a 1UZFE swap into a first gen 4runner. 260 hp sounds like a lot more fun than 190 hp and I think it will probably cost me considerably less than the other options. I am even thinking that once I get to know this engine I'm going to want to a get car that has it as well. Something like the Lexus GS 400. I hear that you can run a single turbo, low boost setup, on the early 1UZFE without the need for any internal engine mods, on the stock ECU, and make about 360 hp. And if 360 hp's not enough, an aftermarket ECU and more fuel are about all that is needed to take this engine to about 500 hp.
Considering that I could probably buy a late '90s GS400 and an eBay turbo kit for less than the price of an LC engineering 22R crate motor, it seems almost irresponsible not to do it.
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v8 swap would be nice, but as the previous guy said, the money involved in a v8 swap is extensive also it has significantly more downtime. But now that we're on the topic of v8's... makes me think of maybe an american heartbeat.. Chevy 350, dirt cheap to make good power with, and infinite customization. But getting the 4x4 to function and finding a manual trans that'd work in the same space constraints as the w56 would be an issue.
Again, a nice swap. But again, downtime will be your biggest drawback. With the length of the engine, exhaust and radiator fitment will be the biggest issues, followed by motor mounts.
I like to keep everything Toyota, but the Chevy swaps are nice and cheap.
....I like to keep everything Toyota, but the Chevy swaps are nice and cheap.
Which Chevy swaps are cheap? The 4.3 V6 maybe. The LS is nice and well documented/supported, but it's not cheap. And the Chevy smallblock has the fitment issues as you pointed about the 1UZFE plus the low end torque that it produces overpowers the Toyota drivetrain. One possible advantage with the Chevy 4.3 could be that a carbureted version would have minimal wiring requirements. And let's not forget the Toyota 3RZ. Marlin Czajkowski's crew swear by that 4 cylinder found in the first generation Tacomas and third ge 4runners.
v8 swap would be nice, but as the previous guy said, the money involved in a v8 swap is extensive also it has significantly more downtime. But now that we're on the topic of v8's... makes me think of maybe an american heartbeat.. Chevy 350, dirt cheap to make good power with, and infinite customization. But getting the 4x4 to function and finding a manual trans that'd work in the same space constraints as the w56 would be an issue.
Again, a nice swap. But again, downtime will be your biggest drawback. With the length of the engine, exhaust and radiator fitment will be the biggest issues, followed by motor mounts.
I like to keep everything Toyota, but the Chevy swaps are nice and cheap.
True but I feel like they're significantly easier wiring wise, and are they really significantly longer? I can already fit my head between my 22RE and the radiator if I unbolt the mechanical fan.
Which Chevy swaps are cheap? The 4.3 V6 maybe. The LS is nice and well documented/supported, but it's not cheap. And the Chevy smallblock has the fitment issues as you pointed about the 1UZFE plus the low end torque that it produces overpowers the Toyota drivetrain. One possible advantage with the Chevy 4.3 could be that a carbureted version would have minimal wiring requirements. And let's not forget the Toyota 3RZ. Marlin Czajkowski's crew swear by that 4 cylinder found in the first generation Tacomas and third ge 4runners.
This raises a question I had almost forgotten. How much power is too much? At what point will the stock drivetrain be overpowered/ start failing? 300hp? 400? 500? Which goes first? Do they go equally? I feel like the tranny would start complaining around 300+ and the rear end could maybe take 350? Or is this overzealous?
If I understand what I have read correctly, the early 1UZFE Lexus V8 is noteworthy for having power levels that are driveline friendly for our trucks. 260 hp at 5500 RPM and 260 lbs ft of torque at 4500 RPM is the spec that I have seen. I also seem to remember that some years ago folks who were swaping the 7MGTE, 3.0 turbo (out of the Mark III Supra) we're experiencing drivetrain breakage, but I am pretty sure this was with increased boost and power levels around 300 hp.
One of the nicer LS swaps that I have seen runs a GM 4L60 automatic transmission in front of the Toyota transfer case in a first generation 4runner. That seems to be a good combination, in part because the automatic transmission delivers the power more smoothly. This video is well done and will give you a clear idea of what a good LS swap looks like.
In an earlier post I mentioned the 3RZ swap. That's the 2.7 liter four cylinder out of the Tacoma. There is a load of excellent information about that swap over on the Marlin Crawler forum that they call The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread. It runs to 51 pages and has nearly half a million views
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Last edited by wrenchtech; 09-11-2017 at 10:45 AM.
This rig appears to be running an auto trans. That said mud, bogging is not my cup of tea, but the sounds produced by the 1UZ are like music to my ears.
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Last edited by wrenchtech; 09-11-2017 at 11:11 AM.
If I understand what I have read correctly, the early 1UZFE Lexus V8 is noteworthy for having power levels that are driveline friendly for our trucks. 260 hp at 5500 RPM and 260 lbs ft of torque at 4500 RPM is the spec that I have seen. I also seem to remember that some years ago folks who were swaping the 7MGTE, 3.0 turbo (out of the Mark III Supra) we're experiencing drivetrain breakage, but I am pretty sure this was with increased boost and power levels around 300 hp.
One of the nicer LS swaps that I have seen runs a GM 4L60 automatic transmission in front of the Toyota transfer case in a first generation 4runner. That seems to be a good combination, in part because the automatic transmission delivers the power more smoothly. This video is well done and will give you a clear idea of what a good LS swap looks like.
In an earlier post I mentioned the 3RZ swap. That's the 2.7 liter four cylinder out of the Tacoma. There is a load of excellent information about that swap over on the Marlin Crawler forum that they call The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread. It runs to 51 pages and has nearly half a million views
This rig appears to be running an auto trans. That said mud, bogging is not my cup of tea, but the sounds produced by the 1UZ are like music to my ears.
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Agreed, mud bogging, and an auto trans are not my favorite, but that noise!
09-08-2017, 06:57 AM
