cdc

alright here is my dilema. i have a 89 extended cab 22re. looking to get a new engine. i thought about having someone build it locally but now i am leaning toward buying one from doa or lce. they both claim to have around 150 hp and 155 pounds torque. doa is a little bit cheaper and tim seems nice over the phone. any one have any suggestions, i dont want to blow 4,000 and be unhappy. i want quality and reliability. thanks in advance. i will let everyone know what i go with and the results. thanks

Turbo4Runner

Search around here and pirate4x4 for DOA. You will get very mixed reviews.

I have a DOA head and I'm very pleased with it. I know a few other people that are very happy (and making 260+ hp) with their DOA motors.

However, on the other hand there are some folks who have been very vocal about their dissatisfaction with DOA.

I'd suggest search around and draw your own conclusions based on the various existing discussions..

Good luck!

MonsterMaxx

260+hp??



Ha ha ha, that's a good one. Who told you that? Tim the lier Jenkins? Making up numbers again?

Ya, just like the 300HP 3.turd he claims.

Get real. Put it on a dyno. I will bet any amount you'd care to lose that you don't even come close.

A tweaked out 3.turd 'might' get 200hp at the FLYWHEEL. 125 at the rear wheels.

A good strong NA small block chevy might get 240 at the rear wheels.


As for that lying crook Jenkins at DOA, all I have to say is BUYER BEWARE. Might as well flush your money down the toilet, at least you won't have all the aggravation you'd get from Dead On Arrival.

Turbo4Runner

uhh no.. Dyno charts told me that..

Sorry, these dyno charts show 250 hp, not 260..

http://www.well.com/user/mosk/welcome.htm


Don't worry I'll post my dyno numbers when I get them too.. It will be over 200hp.

Like I said, opinions vary greatly.. Some of which are VERY strong..

I would agree with MonsterMaxx that you really shouldn't listen to anyone's quoted dyno numbers - there's just way to many factors.

Turbo4Runner

Also I have not heard of Ice, but everyone seems to have good things to say about engnbldr.

http://www.engnbldr.com/

881stGenRunner

he didnt say 'Ice' hes saying LCEngineering. ha

Turbo4Runner

haha ok i feel stupid.. That makes more sense...

MonsterMaxx

I dealt with enginebuilder during my last rebuild.

I found the parts to be of acceptable rebuild quality and the price was right.
Picked up a set of oversize valves too.

There's a reason why no one reliable and honest makes 3VZE hop up parts. The motor just doesn't respond well to mods. Very small gains with big dollars spent. By the time you spend enough to make it equal to a stock 3.4 you could have swapped in the 3.4 and had a much better platform to build on.

If you don't want to blow $4k and be unhappy than don't spend a penny on the 3VZE. Do the swap. Abandon the 3.slow

lphillippi

I spent $3,500 on an LC motor and it was complete waste of money. I had it professionally installed and went through the break in procedure. At 2 months it slipped a crank bearing and all hell broke loose on the freeway at 70. I had my mechanic remove the motor and ship it back to LC for warranty replacement. They came back with a list of BS as to why the motor failed and they weren't going to honor the warranty. Crap like I was running water with no anti-freeze in the radiator. I went through the entire motor replaced everything including the radiator and I'm certain it had antifreeze in it. They said that it was running rich and fuel leaked past the cylinder rings and contaminated the oil with gas. #1 I passed smog in California so there is no chance I was running that rich. #2 I had the oil tested and all it had in it was particles of metal from the blown motor, no fuel. The thing that kills me is that the motor never even saw dirt. It was 2 months of city driving.

I had my stock motor rebuilt for $1,200 and so far it's lasted 10 times longer than the LC motor. The only difference is my rebuild has done about 500 miles of offroading.

Don't buy an LC engine. They're totally over priced and you aren't getting anything except a pretty motor. Their warranty is a weak a 3 months and they don't even stand behind it. You'd be better off having a reputable machinist do the work and he'd give you a 12 to 24 month warranty.

sh0kk86

no offense man, but why are you ranting about a 3.0 when he said 22re.

CoedNaked

I hate to say it but I think he's just bitter that he got put through the ringer by DOA (as he has told us) so he somehow blames the 3vze when it's he should have done a bit more research on approaching building up the 3vze for more power and torque.

There is one person who has done what I would coin a proper build up with of a 3vze with cams, headers, and an exahust (3 mods that will make a big difference as a team) and he was very happy - so happy he put off his plans for a 3.4 swap. There is another person (Green93) who is on the verge of doing the same thing (only he has an auto however) and hopefully we can get some dyno results assuming everything goes as planned when he gets done.

MonsterMaxx

As to doing research...I did.
What you have to remember is that when all this went down years ago and there wasn't much out there.
The 3.4 swap just wasn't avail at the time.
I found Tim 'the thief' Jenkins and fell for his line of BS. He's a smooth talker, no question.

My bad on the 22r...it was late when I posted that.
However, Dead On Arrivial still is not someone you'd want to do business with. A swap is still the best way to get more power and enginebuilder is still a reputable place to get rebuild parts.

No question I've probably got the fastest 3.turd around, but it was a nightmare to get there and I spent a bloody fortune, not to mention all the downtime and aggravation. Seat of the pants it's not nearly as quick as a stock 3.4/auto I drove. With the time and money I spent I could have put a LS1 and a whole new drivetrain in there.

So...stock 22r rebuild, use a local machinist who will offer and stand behind his warranty and get your parts from someone reputable like enginebuilder. Stay as far away from DOA as you can.

And I still say that if you are looking to get real power and are planning to spend the bucks on all the hopups to make your 22 as powerful as you can, you are better off swapping a more modern engine in. I've been down this path. You can either listen to what others have gone thru and avoid their mistakes, or repeat them. The choice is yours.

dcg9381

As part of throwing more fuel on the "mixed" review process, I can say that I've had excellent luck at getting Tim to stand behind his work. It's not cheap stuff, but he has backed his parts at his expense and I'd buy from him again.

Any individual/company that provides engines is automatically in a bit of a jam if one fails. The facts are that many are going to be damaged by misinstallation, poor tuning, or just flat abuse. If you do a bunch, some are going to fail due to "manufacture" problems - even if bench run and dyno tested. Sorting out why the motors failed and liability for the failures is difficult... On one extreme, you'll always have an excuse as to why a manufacturing failure is not the engine builders fault - on the other extreme you're paying for the faults on installers and abusive owners...


This part we agree on. If you want a solid and reliable engine, a 22R is a great choice. If you want a powerful engine, be prepared to spend a lot of cash, and go through a few reliability issues.

When you look at LC, DOA, or any other motor - and it says the motor is good for X hp.. (say 140) - you need to read the fine print and ask questions - that 140 is probably optimum conditions with a series of other bolt-on parts. It's probably carb'd.

Ideally, you want a dyno run of the engine you're interested in with stock fuel injection - that'll give you the true power output of what you're going to get out of the box. If they can't give you that dyno run, then you can almost guarantee that you're going to be operating at less than advertised power.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

PM Ganoid and ask him about his wonderful experience with DOA...soomething about a $1200 mistake and headbolts not exactly machined the same length..

you might find this thread interesting: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f39/...racing-100793/

now I don't have any experience with DOA, but I have heard more bad than good.

Consider going to http://www.engnbldr.com/ have not heard one bad experience about this shop.

SEAIRESCUE

My experience with quite a few 3.0's is this. Given the design of the block and heads, it was a disaster from the start. The heads are thin wall and prone to cracking. The dumb torque sequence suggested by Toyota attests to the weak heads. The exhaust design was stupid. The valves are quite small. The ports are quite small. The block with its main bearing girdle likely contributes to most all the bottom end problems seen after 100k miles. Another really stupid design. The oil pump can not be replaced without dropping the pan. Another stupid design. The intake design is a mechanics worst nightmare. I think the engine development team had a boner for the US, post WW2, and decided to provide us with the worst engine they could design. Guess that is enough. Yes, headers, improved intake air flow and perhaps some reground cams will perk it up but its still a fork lift motor. The best engine out there is the turbo 22re. I had one and like most turbo motors, it responded well to a ct26 or T3 and intercooling. Always found the 4k - 6k RPM range the sweet spot for power. If you stay with Enginebuilder and use ARP head studs you stand a chance of not doing another head gasket job. As for DOA, from what I gather from this site, you should take your business elsewhere.

My $0.02

dcg9381

http://www.engnbldr.com/ (Ted) is great and is a huge asset to the community. His motors - or at least what he sells on the website are on the conservative side. If you want a "hot" motor from him, send an email. I believe his son has taken over the local shop, but he still does to-order work from time to time. If he's busy, he'll refer you to someone that can help you - and he's not someone that makes high end claims - he'll tell you what you can realistically expect from the sum of all your parts.

I don't mod 3.0L motors anymore - I gave that up after doing a set of custom cams years ago. DOA racing did the head in my truck and he also did the complete motor that Jeff Mosk is running. That dyno run above is rear wheel hp - basically power after the transmission and transfer case - it's pushing 300 or more flywheel. It's street driven, pump gas, and if you've even seen a photo of it, you'd never know that it put down that kind of power.

Jeffs motor and my motor have not been without issues - but when you're building high HP low displacement motors, you're going to run into them.

n4ynu1010

I would be curious to see the specs/build of the motor dyno'ed , that would equate almost 2HP a Cu. In. , that motor could not be bone stock even with a Turbo , I would imagine some enhancements going on there if not total misinformation , I could dyno a 350 CI motor and put some bogus info in and then again I could dyno a fully blown HP motor and claim it is factory , doesn't add up .

dcg9381

It's not misinformation.
2hp / cu is quite possible.. Look at all the Hondas or modern motorcycles - it's possible in NA form.

If you want the details on Jeff's build, you should check out his website or the 22rte forum:
http://www.22rte-trucks.com/
http://www.well.com/user/mosk/

You're right through, it's not a stock truck. DOA did the motor - there is a lot of flow to be picked up vs a stock head. 65mm Ford TB, intercooled, ball bearing turbo, 3" exhaust. Stock EFI was tossed. It's tuned to over 14 psi, but I don't know how hard he drives it on the street.

n4ynu1010

Thats what I was saying , I know its possible but not without some performance mods one way or the other
That's why I kinda view it as mis-information , should be list/entered in dyno information -that way unless altered for PR's you know what it took to get the HP/Torque

MudHippy

I would speak to the guy at Custom Machining USA and see what he thinks he can build ya. You'll notice no unsubstanciated HP quotes on that site there.

Does a 2.7L stroker sound interesting?

I bought some manganese bronze bushings from him and they were top quality. I'd do business with him again for sure.