Cure for bent IFS tie rods / idlers?
06-20-2006, 04:36 PM
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Cure for bent IFS tie rods / idlers?
I've wondered if there was a way to prevent tie rods from bending. Deathrunner or AxleIke has said that BJ spacers will bend tie rods/idlers if rock crawling. I saw this happen on my rig on Carnage Canyon (Boulder). Nothing broke, but sure looked like it. Deathrunner has said repeatedly to keep the tie rods level. How about changing the knuckle so it sits higher? Maybe cutting up a SuperLift knuckle spacer to just use it's higher tie rod mount?
How about ESB Fab's solution? Lowered tie rod/relay rods?
How about lowering relay & tie rods (like ESB) and raising the tie rod to knuckle attachment point to level out the steering linkage??
How about ESB Fab's solution? Lowered tie rod/relay rods?
How about lowering relay & tie rods (like ESB) and raising the tie rod to knuckle attachment point to level out the steering linkage??
Last edited by 86Original; 06-20-2006 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Correction
06-20-2006, 05:06 PM
#2
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Originally Posted by 86Original
I've wondered if there was a way to prevent tie rods from bending. Deathrunner or AxleIke has said that BJ spacers will bend tie rods/idlers if rock crawling. I saw this happen on my rig on Carnage Canyon (Boulder). Nothing broke, but sure looked like it. Deathrunner has said repeatedly to keep the tie rods level. How about changing the knuckle so it sits higher? Maybe cutting up a SuperLift knuckle spacer to just use it's higher tie rod mount?
How about EB Fab's solution? Lowered tie rod/relay rods?
How about lowering relay & tie rods (like EB) and raising the tie rod to knuckle attachment point to level out the steering linkage??
How about EB Fab's solution? Lowered tie rod/relay rods?
How about lowering relay & tie rods (like EB) and raising the tie rod to knuckle attachment point to level out the steering linkage??
As for the tie rod angle, I know the TC heim steering helps to lessen it, but IMO the IFS isn't up to completely insane rockcrawling, especially when wedged between huge rocks and stuff, that's solid axle territory. If you go out trying to break you 4Runner in stuff like that, chances are you will.
Most importantly: a little smart driving with a good spotter and the right line go a long way.
Last edited by mastacox; 06-20-2006 at 05:08 PM.
06-20-2006, 09:16 PM
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I've looked at the TC arm. It costs what 3 factory arms cost. Looks like the ESB steering kit is an all or nothing proposition. 3.5X factory pieces. If the knuckles could be raised, it seems that would obviate the need for CrMo tie rods.
I think you're right that you have to pick different lines knowing that your steering won't tolerate hard toe-in forces.
I think you're right that you have to pick different lines knowing that your steering won't tolerate hard toe-in forces.
Last edited by 86Original; 06-20-2006 at 09:18 PM.
06-21-2006, 05:24 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by 86Original
I've looked at the TC arm. It costs what 3 factory arms cost. Looks like the ESB steering kit is an all or nothing proposition. 3.5X factory pieces.
IMO, I'm willing to pay 3X as much money if I have to worry about the part 10X less.
Last edited by mastacox; 06-21-2006 at 05:25 AM.
06-21-2006, 05:31 AM
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I hear ya (Mastacox)! I'll probably get one once I burn through the spare. Just wanted to get some thinking and exploration around raised steering knuckles with BJ spacers.
Last edited by 86Original; 06-22-2006 at 06:16 AM. Reason: clarification
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06-22-2006, 06:19 AM
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Back on topic!
We keep getting off on the LT suspension, SAS, & the ESB steering.
What about modifying the steering knuckles so the tie-rod attachment point is higher?
What about modifying the steering knuckles so the tie-rod attachment point is higher?
06-26-2006, 03:19 PM
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Does anyone have an idea whether a different steering knuckle would fit that would put the tie-rod attachment point higher??? Are the steering knuckles cast? If so, they're not very good for welding or hot-bending.
06-26-2006, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 86Original
Does anyone have an idea whether a different steering knuckle would fit that would put the tie-rod attachment point higher??? Are the steering knuckles cast? If so, they're not very good for welding or hot-bending.
You might check to see if any of the 4" lifts have different steering knuckles. Other than that, I would say you might be out of luck...
But, as we have gone over before, there are ways to get around or account for the bad steering angle.
06-30-2006, 01:47 AM
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the total chaos setup has weld-in add-ons for the steering arm.
but that requires using their $380'ish tie rod ends too.
just buy spares and new ones from local auto parts place that has lifetime warranty...
but that requires using their $380'ish tie rod ends too.
just buy spares and new ones from local auto parts place that has lifetime warranty...
06-30-2006, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 86Original
What about modifying the steering knuckles so the tie-rod attachment point is higher?
you need to work on the upper and lower arms too.
all 3 (upper, lower and tie rod assembly as a whole) must move up and down in the same plane.
if they dont, you have, or as in my case massive toe-in, when both front tire droop.
06-30-2006, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ldivinag
you need to work on the upper and lower arms too.
all 3 (upper, lower and tie rod assembly as a whole) must move up and down in the same plane.
if they dont, you have, or as in my case massive toe-in, when both front tire droop.
all 3 (upper, lower and tie rod assembly as a whole) must move up and down in the same plane.
if they dont, you have, or as in my case massive toe-in, when both front tire droop.
07-28-2006, 12:39 AM
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The point of keeping the tie rods straight is so that your tires don't point in....or any direction other than intended. The actual tie rod end strength isn't the issue. It's more the rods bending or flexing. Heim steering would only be an improvement if the tie rods were sturdier.....but lowering the mount is the real answer.
07-30-2006, 06:39 AM
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contact Superlift and see if they have any parts left over from their super-link IFS kit. It had a relay-rod stabilization system (2nd idler arm in the center of the rod) to help prevent the "roll" that happens when the tie rods push inward and upward. This should be an addition to any vehicle with a lift and front-mounted steering components (Toy, chevy, etc) and should go a long way to saving the steering...
07-30-2006, 06:49 AM
#17
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You can't modify your existing knuckles in a way that would work well.
You can try to cobble parts from different sources, but again, not sure its going to work well.
However, i'd encourage you to experiment. I have considered trying to beef up what i have, but i think that were i to do DOM tierods, relay rod, and idler arm, then my pitman would take a dump, or my knuckle, or something else...murphy's law. I will swap at some point, but i'm not a person to do something half assed, so my swap will cost me upwards of 7k, which i am nowhere near having at the present.
On the other hand, it'd be nice to be able to wheel with confidence again, so its hard to say.
You can try to cobble parts from different sources, but again, not sure its going to work well.
However, i'd encourage you to experiment. I have considered trying to beef up what i have, but i think that were i to do DOM tierods, relay rod, and idler arm, then my pitman would take a dump, or my knuckle, or something else...murphy's law. I will swap at some point, but i'm not a person to do something half assed, so my swap will cost me upwards of 7k, which i am nowhere near having at the present.
On the other hand, it'd be nice to be able to wheel with confidence again, so its hard to say.
07-31-2006, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AxleIke
However, i'd encourage you to experiment. I have considered trying to beef up what i have, but i think that were i to do DOM tierods, relay rod, and idler arm, then my pitman would take a dump, or my knuckle, or something else...murphy's law. I will swap at some point, but i'm not a person to do something half assed, so my swap will cost me upwards of 7k, which i am nowhere near having at the present.
Deathrunner: what are you using for tie rods & relay rod? Are you using something like the TC tie rods?
Last edited by 86Original; 07-31-2006 at 10:03 AM.
07-31-2006, 10:52 AM
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Yeah, pitman is used on SAS rigs, and yeah its not likely mine will break.
I was encouraging you to try something new. I'm not sure what i'm doing yet, but that ESB junk looks smoking, not sure if i want to spend the bones on it.
My point was just that if you make everything else super strong, then something else becomes the weak link, and will break.
I was encouraging you to try something new. I'm not sure what i'm doing yet, but that ESB junk looks smoking, not sure if i want to spend the bones on it.
My point was just that if you make everything else super strong, then something else becomes the weak link, and will break.
08-03-2006, 08:47 AM
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Well I've put a new factory passenger side tie rod assembly, idler arm rebuild with a '91+ idler arm (slightly stouter than '86+ arm), and a Downey idler arm brace on. Kept the old tie rod assembly as a spare and have another idler as a spare. If I break much now, I think I'll just go with the ESB Fab system.
