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broke my timing chain guide, time to rebuild (pics)

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Old 03-29-2011, 12:54 PM
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Hey bud, no problem, ....and as I was hinting.... I agree with RB, regarding not pulling the head, and "I did it right, first time ever", ...so I think you'll be fine. If not, worse case scenario... you go back in and do it IF YOU HAVE TO, ..but otherwise?

Here's a video, hope it clarifies a couple things, ..if not, then oh well, at least we added pics to the second page, eh? hahahaha.....


Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 03-29-2011 at 01:00 PM.
Old 03-29-2011, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RBX
If you pull the pan you'll have more wiggle room.
I'd only pull the head if you plan on doing a gasket replacement or valve seats. It is the proper way to get a good seal where the timing cover meets the head, but isn't necessary because that part of the gasket isn't under pressure nor does it have oil sitting on it's edge like a valve cover where it would weep. Not to mention there are no water jackets or access to cylinders during the timing chain change.
yup. my thoughts exactly. thanks
Originally Posted by ChefYota4x4
Hey bud, no problem, ....and as I was hinting.... I agree with RB, regarding not pulling the head, and "I did it right, first time ever", ...so I think you'll be fine. If not, worse case scenario... you go back in and do it IF YOU HAVE TO, ..but otherwise?

Here's a video, hope it clarifies a couple things, ..if not, then oh well, at least we added pics to the second page, eh? hahahaha.....
dagone school computers block you-tube. i'll take a look later tonight. thanks mark. i'm sure it'll clarify a lot of stuff.

also ordered stuff for the alternator upgrade. next will be e-fan and radiator stuff
Old 03-29-2011, 04:52 PM
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chef, that a great clip on point out wrong from right... hopfully some people will learn a thing or two...
Old 03-29-2011, 06:11 PM
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Hey 90! How you been man? Thanks for the kudo's.... just sharing what I ran into, and I have more, just wanted to point out the obvious ones with the "Pinch" and the Oil Pump Upper Bolt, etc.

Couple things, Ian, ....

You'll probably plan all this ahead... but, just to hone in on some things.....

* The oil pump is held on by 5 bolts..... Out of those 5, there are 3 different torque values. 1 I believe is 9#, another 2 are 14# and the last 2(I believe the bottom ones) are 18#.

* The Water pump is held on, unlike with the keys, by actual 'studs'. I believe there are 3 studs and 5-6 bolts(?), and 4crawlers template/instructions point out which ones. I believe all those studs are 6M x 1.50 or 1.75? And; Being that they've been through SO MANY thousands of heat cycles, etc., ....they can snap off. MANY posts I've read on here and elsewhere with people sharing that....as I'm sharing now, cuz MINE DID, in the brand new cover! lol... I would just get new studs and bolts if you can make a trip to Home Depot or Autozone(just my opinion and a cheap extra form of security in my book ) . Tod's kit will come with new studs, but those are for the fan pulley, only. You can probably find the studs and bolts at Autozone, just bring em with ya when you pull em off this old cover, ya know? The other point on the water pump is that they're all small, as I said(10MM head, I think 6M thread pitch?) and torque is 9#, no more, except for the 8M x 1.25-1.50 timing cover bolt that goes right through into the block(that's a 12MM head). The reason I mention the 10mm & 9# thing, is, well, you might want a 3/8" drive torque wrench for that one. I had one, and good thing, because I couldn't fine a 10MM socket for my 1/2" drive, lol. And, I didn't wanna use 1/2"" to 3/8" conversion extension.....so I just got the 3/8" torque wrench out. (BTW, my H20 pump studs; 1 of them snapped off in the old cover, when trying to get it out... They'd been in there for 160K, ya know? lol...."SNAP", hehe.

* Make sure you clean the outer diameter of the keys really well, because they'll likely have some build up like mine did through condensation, whatever it is, lol. When test fitting my cover on there before install, I found it REALLY tight, almost impossible to get the cover on before cleaning off the keys.... even then, they were TIGHT, as they're supposed to be slightly, ya know?

* I think next time, I will not only drop the diff but ALSO lift the motor, like Lumpy said, ....GREAT idea, as it would have given me the extra couple inches clearance to avoid actually rubbing the pan with sealer on anything(my arm rubbing as well, because of more clearance. It really wasn't that big a deal dropping the diff, nor getting it back in, even by myself, seeing that I had a super duty jack and stands, etc., ......and even had my daughter jack up the diff while I guided it back into the mounting slot on top of the crossmember(that was IMO the hardest part to line up... and it's ALSO A GOOD IDEA if you're manhandling the thing in by hand some to empty the fluid from it.....couldn't hurt on minimizing the weight factor.

*One last thing for now, regarding getting the cover onto the block face; When I had gotten it a lil over the keys, I noticed two things holding me up. (1.) The oil pump drive spline. I had to stick a soft pick in there and turn the spline, and it lined up the pump gears and spline and I could feel it was gliding on. Then, before I could get it to mate with the block face, I HAD to start a few cover bolts, just to get it to fully seat back-2-face.



Between Lumpy, XXX, Jerry, Truckman, several others,.... what seemed to be REALLY INSANE for me to attempt alone at first, in my mind, .....wound up being pretty much cake when just making sure everything was prepared and in place, ready to go, etc.
Old 03-29-2011, 09:17 PM
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mark, if i'm ever in your neck of the woods, i owe you a six-pack.

that video helped a whole bunch, and i'm sure i'll use it again before the install.

great info, saved for later!
Old 03-29-2011, 09:38 PM
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My pleasure, ....Calvin Clein! hahaha.

Hey, I know I can't be as excited to get it back on the road as you are..but I'm DEFINITELY excited to see it, and excited for ya! lol. Gotta have her ready to pull that SUWEET lil trailer! lol.

Have a good'n, Ian,

Ttysoon
Old 03-30-2011, 03:54 AM
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Chef...how many words can you type a minute...impressive!

Like Chef said, although this task may seem daunting, once you complete it, your feeling of satisfaction and victory that you completed the most arduose maintenance task a 22re has during it's normal life span, will be under your belt.....and that's one to grow on.
(i could have written those stupid PSA commercials they run during cartoons, and been paid a ton more then i am now, damn i made the wrong career move!)
Old 03-31-2011, 08:39 PM
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parts are coming in! that was fast. ironically, the stuff that i got has absolutely nothing to do with the timing chain. i got some stuff for my alternator upgrade. i might post pics, but i know i'll post them in my build, once this is done
Old 03-31-2011, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RBX
Chef...how many words can you type a minute...impressive!

Like Chef said, although this task may seem daunting, once you complete it, your feeling of satisfaction and victory that you completed the most arduose maintenance task a 22re has during it's normal life span, will be under your belt.....and that's one to grow on.
(i could have written those stupid PSA commercials they run during cartoons, and been paid a ton more then i am now, damn i made the wrong career move!)
HAHAHA! Hmmmmm, around 80wpm? Something like that, unless I'm EXHAUSTED....... in which case I'm hitting 'backspace............type couple letters, backspace.................." hahaha.

That's great, Ian, ....can't wait to see this avalanche of projects come together!

I've been wanting to do a Supra AFM but can't find one..... then I wanna do an AFM/Battery Swap and add a battery with isolator for my trips! .... Gotta get my IFS restored and have EVERY goody for it, lol..... then I wanna add a 12v waterproof lighter type plug in the rear that i already have, along with a Water Proof Fuse Panel under the hood(which I have NOT found yet a decent one that I want to install yet(bunch of chinese junk at the stores man! lol)

BEST WISHES, HOMIE!

Mark
Old 04-01-2011, 04:57 AM
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you'll be hard-pressed to find a waterproof fuse box. but, you can make your own. take a fuse box (small, aftermarket) and install it in a waterproof box. you'll have to drill a hole for each wire and seal everything up tight with a good sealant (silicon and plumbing goop work well)

what i'm doing is adding bus-bars and a second fuse box for all my accessories and lights. i'm upgrading the alternator to a gm 140 amp one-wire, and need to tidy up the "rat's nest" of wire around the p/s reservoir. it should look spiffy when all said and done
Old 04-01-2011, 11:06 AM
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Suuuuweet! Make sure you get pics, bud, alright? Pics AND EXPLANATIONS for us "Electronics for Dummies" guys, k? hahaha. I will look into that as I wanna run a hub in the cab for a Power Converter thingy. Probably mount that behind the console and then that one 12V lighter type plug next to the trailer wiring under the bumper.

Reminds me, I have to find a way to straighten my hitch-frame. I think when the guy got rear ended to do that lil bender that I had before replacing the bumper?.>>> and it bent the slot end of the hitch mount. OR, maybe theyr'e supposed to have a TINY angle downward for when carrying trailers? Not really familiar with that stuff. lol.
Old 04-01-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by irab88
probably not going to. i know i'll get a better seal, but then i'll need to get a new hg, and maybe new studs, so i'll just wait 'til i do a full-on rebuild.
It's 80 bucks for an entire fel-pro headgasket kit, with new everything...
I'd rather pay the 80 bucks, than have to deal with the mess you're going to have to clean up..
And honestly, you won't need new studs..
Clean yours up with a rag and some carb cleaner and chase the threads, and they're usually fine.
Old 04-01-2011, 12:02 PM
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you have me thinking now... might be worth it after all...
Old 04-01-2011, 12:24 PM
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At 177k, .......just have to say, IF I WAS GOING TO pull the head...I'd change the bolts and more so swap to studs(Then you can torque to 85# btw), have the head checked out, etc., at least, if I was going to pull the head, as I said, at 177k(Unless I had plenty of time to just do it a couple times in the next few years, give or take it's life from there depending on what/how much I rebuild/repair, etc., etc., lolol).

PS> Peow.....That felpro kit is the whole top end, including intake gaskets, egr, etc., etc.?

PSS> I'd also personally go with OEM HG, but you CAN get that from 22reperformance.com for like 45$, rather than 90$ from the dealer. BUT, I do think you CAN be fine with even the Rock Gaskets, as long as you do the head to 63# or so as recommended by Engnbldr and most every other Machinist, instead of 58# per the Haynes, FSM?. I even swapped my CAM(FIRST TIME!) , ....WITHOUT pulling the head, but rather by leaving the Hidden bolt in and strapping the rear of the head down to the frame rails.(they sit on keys anyway, just have to drain them well, etc.). And then, YES, FOR SURE, especially if you re-use the head bolts, you have to clean them very well and chase the threads really well....as well as getting the oil out from the soaked ones, before dropping the bolts back through the Rocker Assembly)...but keep in mind, I did mine with NEW bolts and on a fully cleaned out head bolt thread channels, etc., ya know?

PS> No other persons experience is a guarantee on yours, ya know? That's why I've been so "whatever you're comfy with", Ian... But I did mine, corners sealed up and pan up front sealed up(cuz I pulled the pan) just fine, no leaks.

DO WHAT'S MOST COMFORTABLE TO YOU, Ian, ...but I, personally, would just have the head checked out, etc., etc., if I was going to go through all that. Hell, in another 30 minutes, the entire block could be out, if you're going to the point of pulling the head for a HG, ya know? Doesn't make sense to me to tear down that far at 177k and NOT just at least have everything checked on the top end..... I mean, if you do the HG, the Head.....it's ALREADY OUT, ya know? lol.

Just wanted you to know that I and many others, whether caused by time crunch, etc., have HAD to and then done this job without any negative results after several miles thereafter. AND AGAIN, ...Peow is RIGHT, in that it's 'Recommended',....I have no issues with his logic, at all. Just think you have to weigh everything out and then decide "Am I going to do a full rebuild anyway in 100K or less...in which case, if it holds just fine, I could do a full rebuild when this chain kit is 100k??"... and/or...."Would I have the time if the cover swap doesn't hold well to break it all down and pull the head, when at that point I've dropped the pan, maybe diff, etc?" Couple variables that only you know, Ian, ya KWIMean? lol.

Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 04-01-2011 at 12:27 PM.
Old 04-01-2011, 01:58 PM
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time is my biggest concern. i have 10 days to rip everything out, clean the nasty stuff, install it, and make sure it's how i want it. with taking the head off, now i'm into taking off all the intake, headers, and cali emissions crap (yeah, it's a 22r-ec). soooo that's my only concern. 92 toy's thread took months, and i have just over a week.

i also might just buy the fel-pro kit and studs, and see how things are going once i start. if i feel good, i'll take out the head, but if not, then i'll just do the timing chain cover and return (or hang on to) the gasket kit.

peow- where do you find the kit? all i've found is the $133 one with all the gaskets, including the ones i've already ordered

edit: i'm searching right now, so i'm posting (for my own sake) others that i've found

http://www.hdmaddog.com/Toyota-Lexus...-p4323578.html

http://store.crankkit.com/19to22r22cyh.html

Last edited by irab88; 04-01-2011 at 02:09 PM.
Old 04-01-2011, 02:26 PM
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just looked through this. not too bad. might be able to do it
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b.../7cylinder.pdf
Old 04-01-2011, 04:41 PM
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Hey Ian,

I KNOW what it's like, the mental tennis match you're probably having right now! lol. Been there, done that!

Just some perspective, maybe you can use it, maybe not.

1. If you just do the cover, dropping the pan, etc., ESPECIALLY if you have RB's help and ESPECIALLY if you can spend a couple nights before those "10 days off", getting ready.... You can do "JUST DROP THE PAN AND SWAP THE GOODIES" in one day, 1.5 MAX! And I assume you can get out there a couple times and start removing stuff, right?

2. If you do it (#1) as we've been discussing, and ANYTHING is leaking(which I REALLY doubt will happen, ian....I mean, c'mon, who has worse odds than myself? And it worked for me!!! lol) But let's say it does... You've lost ONE DAY, max 2, and that leaves you 8 days to;

3. Drain all fluids(30 Min. in which time you could get started, anyway), Pull the intake(2 hours), pull the header(1 hour, MAX), Pull the steering brace and pump(30 min.), Pull the head(2 hours to be safe, but trust me, even following the pattern in the book, 2 hours, Ian)......AT THIS POINT;

4. ...The head is off, your kit will have arrived ahead(by your statement of "I'll get it just in case"...and why not, you'll rebuild SOME DAY, right? lol).... This gives you 6-7 Days, Ian, to have the head checked out(if you even want to at this point) and slap it back in.... Honestly, Ian, it wouldn't take you more than 48 Hours at that point to the point of RUNNING and sealed up.

Again, I doubt you'd have any leaks from #1 method... and in that case, granting it works out that first day or 2.... that leaves you 8 days to slap all these goodies you're planning on in there! . Worse case scenario, if you lost those 2 days...would it be enough time anyway to add all these other things? (Personally, i think you'd have time for all three!) But let's face it, .....TIMING COVER AND HEAD GASKET(IF NECESSARY) need to take priority on your 'time tabled' agenda, eh? Putting the timing kit in? NO TIME AT ALL, ...its' the cleaning, finagling that takes the time needed, trust me! lol.

Also personally like to say that I ADMIRE you taking your spring break to DIY and DI-Right, where MANY would not bother/try. Nothing wrong with them really, either, but it's not admirable, if you know what I mean? lol. (I know, ..>i'm sure you 'expect this of yourself', and that's even better! lol. Plus, well, .....WE ENJOY DOING THIS STUFF, EH? haha).
Old 04-01-2011, 05:29 PM
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engine rebuild; sure. this could be the best spring break ever! throw in a bikini contest and it might even get televised...

haha, no, but to everyone- i might be able to set up shop on the side of the house and start up to 2 weeks earlier, giving me 2 full weekends and several partial days (maybe 3 weeks). this weekend, i can start taking things out like the a/c belt, old wiring, and anything that isn't necessary for the truck to run. that would save a bunch of time. and i just got done cleaning out some of the garage to put the new stuff (as well as the bed, cab, and my room).

i'll keep you all updated, as things change around here...
Old 04-01-2011, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by irab88

peow- where do you find the kit? all i've found


http://store.crankkit.com/19to22r22cyh.html
Go to schucks/Oreillys and ask for the fel-pro headgasket set.
If you already have the timing kit, as well as the tchain guides then you won't need the felpro timing gasket set..
Grab a bottle of black RTV while youre in there. And buy a can of carb cleaner or brake cleaner. You'll need both.

@Chef, yes, the felpro HG kit includes EVERYTHING needed to do a headgasket. EGR gaskets, exhaust/intake, etc etc.

When i did mine i took loose the exhaust manny and torqued it over to the side and held it with a ratched strap.
I didn't take the intake off.

Now, when i went into O'Reillys it was 80 bucks, and then i used my les-schwabs discount *cough*, and it was around 60 for me.

Could be less or more depending on your location.
Old 04-02-2011, 05:49 AM
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found it:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...2290&ppt=C0026

thanks peow


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