(btw, I'm going to hot adjust the valves, I just have an electrical issue that I created as part of this job - no temp/fuel gauge or turn signals anymore - and I'm a little nervous to bring the engine up to temp for the first time w/o it incase it goes too far).

 

Its hard when everybody is giving you different advice.
On used/ different 22r engines those clearences cold ,may or may not get the hot clearence you want, but you could test it on yours and set it at .007 and .011 cold, and then get it hot and see if you are at .008 and .012.
I would always rather work on a cold engine.

 

even if the lash is set perfectly you still might get valve train noise depending on the condition of the adjuster screws and cam itself.

 

Crap. I just determined the frequency of the clatter by having my piano teacher wife count off the beats while I used a stopwatch. Its at ~400Hz.... I think that means half of ~750Hz idle speed (mine's not set with a tach yet).

FREQUENCY OF THE CLATTER: This means this clatter happens once per cam rotation... so it happens on either the exhaust or intake stroke of one cylinder. If this was a more frequent sound, I'd attribute it to valve clatter and close the case, but having one cylinder doing something different is imo a warning sign... esp after an H/G failure that revealed a bent valve, and I still have low compression on cylinder 4 (I figured the ring was still seating after the carbon was disturbed).

LOCATION OF THE CLATTER: I got a stethoscope, and the sound definitely is loudest from either valve cover nut on the intake side, and second loudest from the valve cover nuts on the exhaust side (sounds more distant). On the intake side, you can distinctly feel the impact through your fingers like somebody lightly tapped the stud with a hammer, even if its not very audible anymore. I do not hear the sound loudly anywhere on the head (but its sound-dampening aluminum), or on the side of the block next to the exhaust manifold (where would you listen for rod knock?).

That makes me nervous. I've rechecked the clearances, and they're all the same. So what's left here? My ignorantass theories follow ;-)

1) Valve clearance: one clearance, adjuster screw, or cam lobe is still different somehow (the cam lobes look similar to a visual inspection, intake followers for cylinders 1 & 4 are IMO 0.04" sideways from dead center on the valve... but it looks like this might be by design???)
2) Valve float: one of the valves is floating and the machine shop didn't measure the springs - this would explain the bent valve, and the tick once per cam revolution (piston spanking the valve). Anyone know a good way to detect if a spring is weak with cave man tools?
3) Interference: One of my valves isn't clearing the piston. I'm going to compress my springs at the top of each exhaust stroke and feel their clearance. How much clearance would be ok/normal?
4) Piston slap: Maybe my low compression on cylinder 4 means the piston ring is really loose and I'm hearing piston slap??? I have zero knowledge if this is plausible, just an "internet term" to me....
5) Rod knock: :-(

Thanks so much guys... I'm on my way home now, 500 of 3000 miles down, but I'm pausing in a texas rest area for the afternoon to see if I can find this problem / avoid further damage (e.g. if its was a weak valve spring causing float, I bet I could get it changed out this afternoon and avoid bending the valve / doing another h/g swap!).

 

I should also mention I'm posting 15mpg (with the load of a camper shell), whereas I'm used to getting 17-20mpg with the same shell at the same speed. No headwinds. OTOH, the car feels more powerful than before the job, which is weird. This could be a red herring, but thought I'd throw it into the mix.

 

(and I have timing set to the official 5*BTDC with the check connector T-E shorted, resulting in 12*BTDC at idle when its not shorted)

 

Who assembled the head after it was redone ? I'd be looking at spring pressure myself in this case, something is not where it should be . Ummm... I would like to think the head was cleaned up when it was in the shop ?

 

The cam + valves/springs were done by the machine shop. I put the rest together.

1) I checked and double checked the valve clearance again. Nothing needed sizable changing, but I did tiny tiny tweaks.
2) I compressed each valve while its cylinder was TDC in exhaust stroke. Each valve went down a little more than 1/8" before it hit the piston. Does that seem right?
3) I crudely checked the spring pressure. I used a consistent tool and position (me standing over the hoodless engine and squatting down). All the springs were firm to the best of my accuracy (low, but I had to /really/ push on them with both hands bearing a huge chunk of my weight to get them to compress). So there's none that are soft to that level.

 

Low spring pressure wont show up at low RPM. The only time I have seen sticking valves at idle is if you have a cabon in the valve guide/ valve stem, extremely worn valve guide, or a bent valve. The first two I doubt. The noise is preety loud though , so there is somthing going on.You just have to keep looking.

 

I had my heads rebuilt at a local machine shop. I could never get it to run right. It had blow-by out the exhaust and would never idle. Just recently I had enough so I pulled the head to have it done again. We found that 3 of the intake valve guides were so loose they would allow the valve to move back and forth. This was causing the blow-by, the valve train noise and the poor idle. She's all better now.

 

maybe you should take it in for a leakdown check at the machine shop that fixed your head. Be there when they do it and make them let you watch.

 

Is there a way to convince the truck to run without the valve cover on? I know it'll spray oil everywhere, but I want to see these things moving... something might reveal. Unfortunately, the shop that did the work is 800 miles behind me (had to get a 100 mile tow away from that town because my buddies neighborhood association kicked me out of *his* driveway, thanks AAA), and just now when I cranked it the engine started to miss (I've been doing the checks etc in rest areas). Just 1000 more miles.... but I don't think its going to make it :-(

 

Something I'm noticing: the PCV valve has a drip of oil when I unplug it (presumably blowby is splashing oil into it) . Is that harmful? I've heard that timing has something to do with vacuum pressure in the crankcase (I don't understand this at all, maybe somebody can explain, but I've seen a couple references to this in forums).... maybe 5*BTDC is off for me with this strong blowby?

 

Its normal to have some oil in the PCV valve. Did you replace the bent valve?

 

How much oil has it used on the trip so far ? I'm almost willing to bet a valve kissed a piston and cracked it . Either the original incident or when you put it back together .

 

No posts from him today, may not be good !

 

Hi all not in texas anymore (where the rest areas have wifi). wrote a long post, but the battery died right before I sent it. Here's the short version:

1) bent valve was replaced
2) cracked piston from a valve kiss was my firsttheory too, but no oil in exhaust (before hg swap, used 1 qt every 1000mi, and a little white smoke). Anyway, still definite possibility.

I decided I was being too picky and after rechecking the lash this morning (I can't quite get it dialed in..... hrm.... I need a feeler gauge w/ right angle bend.. but +/- 0.001). Also, surprise wind storm apeared with the cover off, didn't get it on in time, and sand blew into the valve area. Damnit. Two hours picking out grain by grain + an oil change...... I might be doing more harm than good working at rest areas in the desert! ;-)

So I decided to stop creating phantoms and drive (got a new pcv valve first.. why not?)). Everything was good for 600 miles... now it seems to miss at low speeds when its hot. I should mention I advanced the timing to 6 or 7, I think something with the vacuum was messing with timing under load. No dieseing...... could this cause a miss??? Doesn't quite add up. I'm going to keep it runninng except gas, and drive through the night. If all goes "well" (ie a little less bad *g*) I'll be home by 10p tomorrow. Will report.

Maybe my luck is waiting for the lunar eclipse to shift? :-) stay strong little truck.....

Until tomorrow.....

 

IIRC, you started off in Austin Tx., correct ? Where are you headed ?

 

Man, my hat is off to you, working on your truck in rest stops while on a road trip. It sounds like the machine shop messed up on the valve job somewhere. Good luck with it.

 

We made it! Christmas at home, just what I asked for, thanks yotatech ;-)

I'm going to take a week off from the truck, but working from here will be much better.... sipping brews, taking my time.... almost sounds like fun (don't tell my wife ;-). My much-younger HS-aged sister wants to learn, so I'll even have a go-fer. Paradise I tell you!

After doing some research, I've discovered the valve-adjustment screws often wear, so if they're rotated you're now pushing the valve spring with a point instead of a flat surface, so one or multiple end up clacking. The un-even shape would also explain why I had so much trouble getting the valve clearance to "hold" (it always seemed to drift a little... I think now its adjustment difficulty owing to an uneven measuring surface).

The misses are more mysterious, but with any luck they'll yield better to time and patience.