T4R 4ME

This is on a '95 4wd 4R. I am using information from a Haynes manual which seems to be fairly consistent with information elsewhere, but if there is a better method, please let me know.

I previously replaced my auto hubs with Warn manuals so I'm using the information for manual hubs. The manual doesn't specify OEM or aftermarket manual hubs, so I am assuming the procedure is the same for both, is this correct?

I got everything re-installed. Put on the thrust washer and adjusting nut. Torqued this to 43lbs and then loosened the nut so it can be turned by hand. I then measured the oil seal drag and this was 1lb. Does this sound ok, or is that too low? I would have thought there would be more resistance, but I've never done this so I have no clue.

I then re-torqued that adjusting nut to 18lbs. I put on the lock washer and lock nut and torqued that nut to 43lbs. I measured the preload and this came out to 4lbs. According to the Haynes manual, I am shooting for 6.4 - 12.6lbs greater than the oil seal drag. So, I removed the lock nut and washer and tightened the adjusting nut some more and put the lock washer and nut back on and torqued the nut to 43lbs.

Well, long story short, I've removed the lock nut and washer to tighten the adjusting nut more three times and I'm not getting very far. Each time, it increases the preload a bit, but not within specs the manual suggests.

So, is there something I should check to make sure I'm doing correctly?
When measuring the drag, what exactly are you looking for? Do you stop when the hub first starts to move a little or until it makes a bit of a rotation?

Thanks!!!

TORTIS

iTrader: (1)

this my be stupid, but i get the load right and pay no attention to the foot pounds of torque. meaning, when i get the scale to say about 8-10, i call it done and put the lock ring and nut on, and give it a final check.

black diamond

u should rotate the wheel several times as tightniing to torqu spec. under or over torque will fail quickly. go by the specs. u will be OK!!

T4R 4ME

Thats what I'm trying to do is go by the specs. But, for some reason, the torque specs and the tension specs don't want to come even close to matching up. So what can I be doing wrong . . . using the spring scale improperly?
When using a spring scale, what am I looking for, the very first slight movement or a partial rotation?

black diamond

i am not sure what these tension specs are all about, how are u measuring them. i have replaced wheel bearings, never heard of it. i went by the toyota factory service manual, didn,t mention that, or i didn,t see it. i have trail time on mine and there holding out just fine.

T4R 4ME

Measuring them with a spring scale as stated in my Haynes manual as well as in many posts on here and other places. So how did you set yours if not with a spring scale?

black diamond

i have a 88 p/u, not sure if procedure is the same. i packed the new bearings with grease, slowly tightened spindle nut while rotating the tire, until achieved the proper torque spec. must rotate several times and recheck. installed lock tab and nut. reisntall hub. should be good to go.

T4R 4ME

Yours might be different. Theres more to it than just torque - oil seal drag and preload to be specific. I wish it was as simple as just that.
I might be making it overly complicated, but I just want to make sure I get it done correctly, considering I've never done it before, I'm learning as I go.

Luvmeye22re

I've always done it by feel and haven't had any problems. I tighten down the first nut really tight, spin the wheel a few times, then back the nut off just a little bit (until loose). Then I "snug" it down with what I call half arm torque and spin the wheel. If I feel some drag but not like the bearings are squashed, then I put the retainer on and crank the second nut as tight as I can while still being able to fold the retaining washer (is that what its called lol) over each nut. If I am running larger tires or a larger offset I usually go a little tighter on the preload, but not much.

T4R 4ME

Problem with doing it by feel is everyones feel is different. You sound like you've done it many times so you probably have a good feel for it. I've never done it and have no idea what I'm feeling for. Obviously if everything falls off its too lose and if it doesn't spin at all its too tight. But theres many pounds between those two extremes. What its supposed to 'feel' like in between there I don't know. Heck, I don't even know if I'm using the spring scale right, trust me, you don't want me trying to "snug it".

Targetnut

what are you using to measure the preload?

I have found that if you torque them to spec the preload is usually very close.

T4R 4ME

Hmmmmmm, maybe I need to find a way to phrase my ??? differently.
I'm using a spring scale. I did torque them to spec and my preload was far off - too loose. Thats why I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong or using the spring scale incorrectly. Guess I could go with the Haynes recommendation and keep tightening the adjustment nut until the preload is where it should be, but then this will torque it way over the recommended 18lbs and I don't know if that is the correct thing to do either.

anotherjeff

I'm looking at the '85 FSM and it calls for 1.3 - 4.0 lbs + frictional oil seal drag. I believe that the '85 and '95 have the same hubs and bearings. Hayes ("6.4 - 12.4 lbs") may be incorrect.

Luvmeye22re

I have done it a good number of times, and on much more than just Toyota's but there is a certain drag you want. The key is getting that initial good "squish" when you put the first nut on. Then getting it snug to the point where when you spin the wheel forward you get about 1.5 turns on a good spin. It does loosen up after a little driving even still so the next time you jack it up you will get a few spins, even with the caliper on. Here is a write-up that helped me a lot, it will help you even more if you have a fish scale (spring scale )

Wheel Bearing Adjustment By SR5Dave

A good way (at least IMO) to tighten wheel bearings; which allows at least moderately proper preload even with large tires or different offset rims.

Torque down real tight. Spin wheel once to get everything set. Now back it off. Tighten a little, grab at 12 and 6 and wiggle back and forth. Does it wiggle? Tighten more. Wiggle again. Does it wiggle? Tighten more. Do this until there is basically NO play (Except some from the tires moving back and forth), should be real firm. Now spin the wheel, does it spin at least 1.5 revolutions easily? Good to go.

Doesn't? Go buy new bearings ya cheap bastard, they're wasted If you can't buy new ones; just find the best point on the curve between little wiggle and enough spin. Make sure one doesn't spin way easier than the other or the freeway will be real interesting.

This is a good way to do it because you adjust them tighter with bigger tires naturally. Its not perfect, but since Toyota didn't suply us with preload if you put 38" tires and 2"BS rims on.. its 'good enough' IMO. This method gets preload firmer with bigger tires because of a 20" leverage arm on 40" tires instead of 15" lever arm w/ 30"s, further out, easier it is to move the tire, so you tighten it more for less play. Works out pretty good.

{Comment by 4RnrRick - I feel it should be done using the method in the FSM or Haynes with a pull scale and the adjusted from there for more preload for bigger tires. I'm not sure how much more other than it probably requires more preload to increase bearing life. IMO 'By Feel" is not the best method since everyone does not have the same hands....}

I got this from the pirate4x4 faq, it helped me a lot.

Targetnut

Is it an accurate one?

Are you pulling from the lug stud at a 90deg angle?

what kind of torque wrench are you using.

It's unusual to find that it was torqued to 18ft/lbs and the rotational force would be that low,

I'm asking these questions because in my experience I've seen many people create problems for themselves by using tools and techniques that were not up to snuff.

fork

quoted for simplicity

ive never used a spring gauge and my wheels are still on just go by the torque specs and make sure to spin the hub a few rotations in each direction between tightening

TORTIS

iTrader: (1)

i check my spring scale with a 5 pound weight. i got tired of trying to get the torque and drag right and finally settled on the drag. no bearing failures.

T4R 4ME

Is what an accurate one, spring scale? I would assume so since its new and a good brand. But I don't know. I haven't yet tried to take something of a known weight and see if it registers correctly, but I will do this. Thank you for this suggestion

Craftsman non-digital torque wrench. Don't know what model off hand and its too early to go down to the garage to look. But it has been accurate to this point, so I would think it still it. But, I will use another torque wrench and double check its accuracy once I go back to work with this.

So I was correct thinking that 1lb on the oil seal drag was a bit low? What is a closer number that this should look like?

I think that the issue is more with my technique than the tools but I could be wrong. Again, I'll ask what exactly it is I'm looking for when using this spring scale? Is it the first slightest movement that the hub makes when it begins to rotate (as I am doing)? Or is it a partial rotation which I've noticed takes more force to pull?

Thanks!!!

T4R 4ME

I'm guessing that by the amount of people posting in here that they do it by 'feel' or just using torque or drag that I'm not the only one that has problems getting this right. But I'd like to, at least the first time while I figure out what exactly it is I'm doing.

T4R 4ME

So honestly, I feel stupid that I can't figure the correct way to use this spring scale. But maybe this is why so many people on here and just go by 'feel'. I played with it some more today and figured I'd just go with what seems right.
I removed all the nuts and washers pulled the hub lose, put it back and started from the beginning, again following the steps in the Haynes manual.

I got the adjusting nut torqued and check with the spring scale. I thought maybe I wasn't pulling hard enough yesterday, so I gave it a bit of a harder tug. This time I got up to 3 1/2lbs (vs 1lb yesterday). I put the lock washer and lock nut on and torqued and gave it another tug with the spring scale. I got the same 3 1/2lbs with the lock nut on and torqued to 33lbs that I did with just the adjusting nut. What would this indicate?

I still think the problem is with my method. If I pull softly with the spring scale until the hub barely moves, I get 1lb. If I pull harder and get a little rotation, I get about 3 1/2lbs. If I pull even harder and get more rotation out of the hub, I can get up to 9lbs. Any advise on how to correctly use this scale?

OK here, I even made a quick video with the differences I get depending on how hard the scale is pulled. Which way, if any, would be correct.

Thanks again!!!

http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...t=MOV00109.flv