About to pull the head - Don't Know What else to do
07-17-2009, 03:43 PM
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Forensic-Psycological Reconstuction Reveals Possible Answer To Mysterious Metal
I just pieced together a plausible explanation:
Back in November I was working on a starter problem. I had to follow the wad of wires that went underneath the throttle body because the previous owner re-did some of the wiring when an alarm system was installed; I couldn't use a wiring diagram because the previous owner used non-stock wire.
The throttle body was detached from the intake manifold for quite some time, and I vaguely remember dropping a bolt, nut, or washer and never being able to find it. It must have dropped into the intake manifold.
There, the bolt, nut, or washer sat, just fine, for seven whole months, teetering on the edge of disaster, waiting to strike at any moment, flirting with sure catastrophe.
Then, just three weeks ago, when I went over the concrete ledge, hanging up the rear of the truck frame, I remember that I hit my head pretty hard on the driver's side door; so most of the force was in that direction. The bolt, nut, or washer was forced into the head and bounced just above the valve.
After I turned the engine off, the bolt, nut, or washer rested on the valve, and waited for it to open once again, so that it could make it's final deathly decent into the dark abyss of Cylinder Four's chamber of "crush and fire".
Next thing I know, my poor engine, a victim of my carelessness, screams out in agony with a vicious metallic knocking ...
That's the best explanation that I can conjure right now. Seem plausible?
Back in November I was working on a starter problem. I had to follow the wad of wires that went underneath the throttle body because the previous owner re-did some of the wiring when an alarm system was installed; I couldn't use a wiring diagram because the previous owner used non-stock wire.
The throttle body was detached from the intake manifold for quite some time, and I vaguely remember dropping a bolt, nut, or washer and never being able to find it. It must have dropped into the intake manifold.
There, the bolt, nut, or washer sat, just fine, for seven whole months, teetering on the edge of disaster, waiting to strike at any moment, flirting with sure catastrophe.
Then, just three weeks ago, when I went over the concrete ledge, hanging up the rear of the truck frame, I remember that I hit my head pretty hard on the driver's side door; so most of the force was in that direction. The bolt, nut, or washer was forced into the head and bounced just above the valve.
After I turned the engine off, the bolt, nut, or washer rested on the valve, and waited for it to open once again, so that it could make it's final deathly decent into the dark abyss of Cylinder Four's chamber of "crush and fire".
Next thing I know, my poor engine, a victim of my carelessness, screams out in agony with a vicious metallic knocking ...
That's the best explanation that I can conjure right now. Seem plausible?
Last edited by jungle_runner; 07-17-2009 at 05:22 PM.
07-17-2009, 04:51 PM
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it does, the video didn't really sound like a rod knock, but it was the only thing that would make a sound like that other then your explanation. That sucks man... Don't worry, we've all been there...i had a talon engine (4g63) i put back together because the timing belt broke and i forgot to put the crank bolt back in for the crank pulley, and i started it. Ran great, for 10 seconds until the pulley came off the crank and the pistons slammed into the valves putting me right back where i started. Yeah, i was not happy
BTW...the head probably isn't new, its a reman. (not that this is a bad thing) but thats a good price even on a reman...
BTW...the head probably isn't new, its a reman. (not that this is a bad thing) but thats a good price even on a reman...
07-17-2009, 05:24 PM
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omg, that's a good story, sorry to hear about that, but these types of things make us be more careful
i asked the guy for the price of a reman and he said he can't get 'em, said this one would be new
i asked the guy for the price of a reman and he said he can't get 'em, said this one would be new
07-17-2009, 05:41 PM
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All I know is that I got such a clear image from your theory that is so cool I love reading books but it either one of the two ways.
-bolt make boom in engine on piston.
-the shinny bolt made my sisters glow after I took her virginity look like a darkened overcasted night over the darkened...... anyways to much details and I get bored way easy.
Crazy how a bolt can be lost sideways nearly. not like the intake is set up straight up and down for crap to fall just straight in.
-bolt make boom in engine on piston.
-the shinny bolt made my sisters glow after I took her virginity look like a darkened overcasted night over the darkened...... anyways to much details and I get bored way easy.
Crazy how a bolt can be lost sideways nearly. not like the intake is set up straight up and down for crap to fall just straight in.
07-17-2009, 05:48 PM
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haha, here are some brand new heads for sure...http://www.engnbldr.com/toyota_heads.htm
07-19-2009, 10:03 AM
#67
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I've been told they are still making new heads for these engines in Canada. The one in my truck on the professionally rebuilt engine is one.
Glad to hear you're getting it figured out and done correctly!
Keep up the good work and posts
Glad to hear you're getting it figured out and done correctly!
Keep up the good work and posts
07-19-2009, 07:41 PM
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Wow, jungle_runner. I guess that explains how dropping off a 3ft embankment can cause that knocking sound. Sorry for your misfortune.
I just rebuilt my 22re and the first time I went to start it there was an awful metallic crunching sound. I thought it was the valves all bending or something catastrophic ... turns out I left a socket wrench hanging off the crank pulley from when I was turning the crank to tdc. Fortunately for me I only broke some pieces off my fan shroud, but I about had a heart attack. We all overlook things sometimes. Too bad your head got trashed.
Good luck with the new one!
I just rebuilt my 22re and the first time I went to start it there was an awful metallic crunching sound. I thought it was the valves all bending or something catastrophic ... turns out I left a socket wrench hanging off the crank pulley from when I was turning the crank to tdc. Fortunately for me I only broke some pieces off my fan shroud, but I about had a heart attack. We all overlook things sometimes. Too bad your head got trashed.
Good luck with the new one!
07-23-2009, 08:36 PM
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Tried putting the new rod cap bearings in and torquing to spec, but the are causing the shaft to bind. I can see that they are thicker than the standards that I pulled. These are standards too. Hmm, I talked to autozone about it, they said they will take them back.
The FSM says that there are 3 standard sizes: A, B, & C and then .25 oversize bearings. Autozone only caries one standard size bearing. Anyone have an experience like this?
I'm thinking of just putting the old ones back in, but the thing that sucks is that I didn't keep track of them once I removed them, I didn't think that I'd need them any more.
The FSM says that there are 3 standard sizes: A, B, & C and then .25 oversize bearings. Autozone only caries one standard size bearing. Anyone have an experience like this?
I'm thinking of just putting the old ones back in, but the thing that sucks is that I didn't keep track of them once I removed them, I didn't think that I'd need them any more.
07-23-2009, 08:37 PM
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07-23-2009, 10:46 PM
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Tried putting the new rod cap bearings in and torquing to spec, but the are causing the shaft to bind. I can see that they are thicker than the standards that I pulled. These are standards too. Hmm, I talked to autozone about it, they said they will take them back.
The FSM says that there are 3 standard sizes: A, B, & C and then .25 oversize bearings. Autozone only caries one standard size bearing. Anyone have an experience like this?
I'm thinking of just putting the old ones back in, but the thing that sucks is that I didn't keep track of them once I removed them, I didn't think that I'd need them any more.
The FSM says that there are 3 standard sizes: A, B, & C and then .25 oversize bearings. Autozone only caries one standard size bearing. Anyone have an experience like this?
I'm thinking of just putting the old ones back in, but the thing that sucks is that I didn't keep track of them once I removed them, I didn't think that I'd need them any more.
07-24-2009, 05:59 AM
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My crank was re-ground, so I did not run into the same issue. I could be mistaken, but I recall that I originally has a couple caps stamped "C" and a couple stamped "B". Have you checked the nearest Toyota dealer to see if they have the ones that match your application?
Last edited by Karlton; 07-24-2009 at 06:00 AM. Reason: Add a picture
07-24-2009, 10:19 AM
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I have 3 A's and a B. Talked to the dealer, these parts are now discontinued. Talked to engnbldr, they say that the A, B, C specs were really for manufacturing purposes and that the standard size will work. They also say that engines that have run hot could have a warped block, and the main shaft can become out of alignment.
The standard size bearings that put in were rubbing at the ends of the bearing, based on the markings once I removed them.
The standard size bearings that put in were rubbing at the ends of the bearing, based on the markings once I removed them.
07-26-2009, 11:45 PM
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after talking with folks, it's best to get the crankshaft turned and use oversized bearings (undersized is the correct name, the undersized bearings are thicker than standard sized bearings, the undersize is referring to the crankshaft being shaved)
i put the old bearings back, i know, not the best idea, but if i can get at least another 10k out of them, i'll be happy, and then i'll do it right. my old bearings were within spec, tested them with plasti-gauge
the engine is back together and sounds smooth, just having an issue with a high idle. i think it may be the fact that the coolant is low. if it's not that, then maybe i've got some vacuum lines crossed.
may be test driving soon, thanks
i put the old bearings back, i know, not the best idea, but if i can get at least another 10k out of them, i'll be happy, and then i'll do it right. my old bearings were within spec, tested them with plasti-gauge
the engine is back together and sounds smooth, just having an issue with a high idle. i think it may be the fact that the coolant is low. if it's not that, then maybe i've got some vacuum lines crossed.
may be test driving soon, thanks
07-27-2009, 06:19 AM
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Feels good to have it running again, eh? 
Good luck with the fresh head. Hopefully you'll get many more miles before you need to replace anything else, but if and when you do you'll stuff a couple rags in the intake, eh? 
Take care jungle_runner!
Good luck with the fresh head. Hopefully you'll get many more miles before you need to replace anything else, but if and when you do you'll stuff a couple rags in the intake, eh? Take care jungle_runner!
07-27-2009, 06:25 PM
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adjusted tps and timing, idle is 750 now with idle adjustment screw all the way in ... perfect ... i went for the first test drive ... what the HESITATION!?!?
it revs well out of gear, but when in gear it feels like the power is being sucked away when i press the gas, and as i let off the gas the tugging feel goes away, but the more i press the gas, the more resistance
interesting, doing some searches on this now
it revs well out of gear, but when in gear it feels like the power is being sucked away when i press the gas, and as i let off the gas the tugging feel goes away, but the more i press the gas, the more resistance
interesting, doing some searches on this now
07-27-2009, 07:12 PM
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sounds like you need to go ahead and pull the motor to me. there is a lot of parts that can make that racket.(rod,wrist pin bushing,piston) if a rod has gone bad i have rarely seen that you can just put new bearings in. there has got to be trash in the rest of the engine. bound to have scratches on the journal if now under size and need to be reground. the small end of the rod has bushing and can make noise. might could start pulling spark plug wires while its running if the sound changes thats the bad one. I've built hundreds of toyotas and theres not normaly a easy fix and it be right. i got two in the shop now. plus one 3.0 . two 3.4 . one 2.7 and a 3sfe. some times i thank im the only shop in ms. that builds toyotas
07-28-2009, 03:52 PM
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sounds like you need to go ahead and pull the motor to me. there is a lot of parts that can make that racket.(rod,wrist pin bushing,piston) if a rod has gone bad i have rarely seen that you can just put new bearings in. there has got to be trash in the rest of the engine. bound to have scratches on the journal if now under size and need to be reground. the small end of the rod has bushing and can make noise. might could start pulling spark plug wires while its running if the sound changes thats the bad one. I've built hundreds of toyotas and theres not normaly a easy fix and it be right. i got two in the shop now. plus one 3.0 . two 3.4 . one 2.7 and a 3sfe. some times i thank im the only shop in ms. that builds toyotas
07-29-2009, 11:16 PM
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Made it home :)
I made a few tps and timing adjustments and most of the hesitation is gone, just a bit when the accelerator is lightly pressed. I said goodbye to the parents this morning, my dad video taped the departure. The engine feels stronger than ever. On the freeway everything was smooth and the engine stayed at a good temp. Before I started up the mountain road I pulled over to do an inspection. The engine was so quiet and smooth that for a second I thought it had shut off! ... I made it all the way up the mountain in 3rd gear (there used to be some spots where I needed 2nd) ... it seemed to use a lot more gas than normal to make the 1.5 hour trip, maybe some more tps and timing adjustment will help ... I feel that I've really bonded with this truck
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!
