93 4Runner Rear Brake Drums and Shoes - Adjuster and One Drum Not Coming Off
Oct 12, 2020 | 12:28 PM
#1
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From: Kaua'i
93 4Runner Rear Brake Drums and Shoes - Adjuster and One Drum Not Coming Off
Aloha Everyone,
I ran into some trouble yesterday when attempting to replace the brake drum shoes. The driver side brake drum came off easy. I used the screw method and they popped right out. I am pretty sure the threads are nearly stripped and subsequent attempts to remove could be difficult (I applied some anti-seize grease to the mating surfaces between the hub and brake drum). On the passenger side I tried the screw method to decouple the drum from the hub without success. The threads were rusted out and stripped. I used a healthy amount of pb blaster and used a mini sledge tapping around the lug studs to try and get it to decouple. This did not work so I attempted to use the adjuster to bring the shoes in assuming the drum is in contact with the shoes; although the drum was spinning freely. I had a hell of a time adjusting through the adjustment port. I practiced on the drivers side where the shoes and components were exposed but when I went back over to the passenger side covered drum I ended up locking the drum (presumably brought the shoes out rather than in uggh). I gave up at that point as I couldn't get the adjustment just right and said f it. I put it all back together and now have uneven rear braking (yes go ahead and roast me, I can handle it but it was too late and I had work this morning). I called a couple shops to see what they would quote on this and was a little surprised. One shop quoted $250 just to put the shoes in without replacing any other hardware. Another shop quoted $1200 which includes a full rebuild of the rear brake drums, shoes, and internals. I already have the shoes but can get all the parts (springs, clips etc.) for half what they put in the quote. Should I just replace all the hardware while I am in there? The springs are decent but there is a lot of rust. I will follow your guys' suggestions. I have a feeling if I can just figure out how to get the shoes on the passenger side adjusted away from the drum I should be able to get the brake drum off but I need to be prepared for the situation where I cannot. I have gone through the yotatech video tutorials and scoured the forums but the solutions I am finding have been tried and not working. I have not found anything that is very helpful in mastering the adjustment via the backside port. Can you guys help me get moving in the right direction?
I ran into some trouble yesterday when attempting to replace the brake drum shoes. The driver side brake drum came off easy. I used the screw method and they popped right out. I am pretty sure the threads are nearly stripped and subsequent attempts to remove could be difficult (I applied some anti-seize grease to the mating surfaces between the hub and brake drum). On the passenger side I tried the screw method to decouple the drum from the hub without success. The threads were rusted out and stripped. I used a healthy amount of pb blaster and used a mini sledge tapping around the lug studs to try and get it to decouple. This did not work so I attempted to use the adjuster to bring the shoes in assuming the drum is in contact with the shoes; although the drum was spinning freely. I had a hell of a time adjusting through the adjustment port. I practiced on the drivers side where the shoes and components were exposed but when I went back over to the passenger side covered drum I ended up locking the drum (presumably brought the shoes out rather than in uggh). I gave up at that point as I couldn't get the adjustment just right and said f it. I put it all back together and now have uneven rear braking (yes go ahead and roast me, I can handle it but it was too late and I had work this morning). I called a couple shops to see what they would quote on this and was a little surprised. One shop quoted $250 just to put the shoes in without replacing any other hardware. Another shop quoted $1200 which includes a full rebuild of the rear brake drums, shoes, and internals. I already have the shoes but can get all the parts (springs, clips etc.) for half what they put in the quote. Should I just replace all the hardware while I am in there? The springs are decent but there is a lot of rust. I will follow your guys' suggestions. I have a feeling if I can just figure out how to get the shoes on the passenger side adjusted away from the drum I should be able to get the brake drum off but I need to be prepared for the situation where I cannot. I have gone through the yotatech video tutorials and scoured the forums but the solutions I am finding have been tried and not working. I have not found anything that is very helpful in mastering the adjustment via the backside port. Can you guys help me get moving in the right direction?
Last edited by surf4life; Oct 12, 2020 at 12:30 PM.
Oct 12, 2020 | 06:40 PM
#2
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,583
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From: Alaska
Aloha Everyone,
I ran into some trouble yesterday when attempting to replace the brake drum shoes. The driver side brake drum came off easy. I used the screw method and they popped right out. I am pretty sure the threads are nearly stripped and subsequent attempts to remove could be difficult (I applied some anti-seize grease to the mating surfaces between the hub and brake drum). On the passenger side I tried the screw method to decouple the drum from the hub without success. The threads were rusted out and stripped. I used a healthy amount of pb blaster and used a mini sledge tapping around the lug studs to try and get it to decouple. This did not work so I attempted to use the adjuster to bring the shoes in assuming the drum is in contact with the shoes; although the drum was spinning freely. I had a hell of a time adjusting through the adjustment port. I practiced on the drivers side where the shoes and components were exposed but when I went back over to the passenger side covered drum I ended up locking the drum (presumably brought the shoes out rather than in uggh). I gave up at that point as I couldn't get the adjustment just right and said f it. I put it all back together and now have uneven rear braking (yes go ahead and roast me, I can handle it but it was too late and I had work this morning). I called a couple shops to see what they would quote on this and was a little surprised. One shop quoted $250 just to put the shoes in without replacing any other hardware. Another shop quoted $1200 which includes a full rebuild of the rear brake drums, shoes, and internals. I already have the shoes but can get all the parts (springs, clips etc.) for half what they put in the quote. Should I just replace all the hardware while I am in there? The springs are decent but there is a lot of rust. I will follow your guys' suggestions. I have a feeling if I can just figure out how to get the shoes on the passenger side adjusted away from the drum I should be able to get the brake drum off but I need to be prepared for the situation where I cannot. I have gone through the yotatech video tutorials and scoured the forums but the solutions I am finding have been tried and not working. I have not found anything that is very helpful in mastering the adjustment via the backside port. Can you guys help me get moving in the right direction?
I ran into some trouble yesterday when attempting to replace the brake drum shoes. The driver side brake drum came off easy. I used the screw method and they popped right out. I am pretty sure the threads are nearly stripped and subsequent attempts to remove could be difficult (I applied some anti-seize grease to the mating surfaces between the hub and brake drum). On the passenger side I tried the screw method to decouple the drum from the hub without success. The threads were rusted out and stripped. I used a healthy amount of pb blaster and used a mini sledge tapping around the lug studs to try and get it to decouple. This did not work so I attempted to use the adjuster to bring the shoes in assuming the drum is in contact with the shoes; although the drum was spinning freely. I had a hell of a time adjusting through the adjustment port. I practiced on the drivers side where the shoes and components were exposed but when I went back over to the passenger side covered drum I ended up locking the drum (presumably brought the shoes out rather than in uggh). I gave up at that point as I couldn't get the adjustment just right and said f it. I put it all back together and now have uneven rear braking (yes go ahead and roast me, I can handle it but it was too late and I had work this morning). I called a couple shops to see what they would quote on this and was a little surprised. One shop quoted $250 just to put the shoes in without replacing any other hardware. Another shop quoted $1200 which includes a full rebuild of the rear brake drums, shoes, and internals. I already have the shoes but can get all the parts (springs, clips etc.) for half what they put in the quote. Should I just replace all the hardware while I am in there? The springs are decent but there is a lot of rust. I will follow your guys' suggestions. I have a feeling if I can just figure out how to get the shoes on the passenger side adjusted away from the drum I should be able to get the brake drum off but I need to be prepared for the situation where I cannot. I have gone through the yotatech video tutorials and scoured the forums but the solutions I am finding have been tried and not working. I have not found anything that is very helpful in mastering the adjustment via the backside port. Can you guys help me get moving in the right direction?
I use a screwdriver that I bent significantly to reach through the adjuster slot over the adjuster to contact the lever and push it off of the adjuster wheel while I use an adjuster "spoon" to back off the star wheel.
this still won't make your drum just slip off though, bust out the hammer and consider new drums and hardware to go with the brake shoes.
Oct 12, 2020 | 06:53 PM
#3
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From: Kaua'i
keep practicing with the side that came apart. you need to release the lever arm from the adjuster wheel before you can loosen the brakes, otherwise they will only tighten.
I use a screwdriver that I bent significantly to reach through the adjuster slot over the adjuster to contact the lever and push it off of the adjuster wheel while I use an adjuster "spoon" to back off the star wheel.
this still won't make your drum just slip off though, bust out the hammer and consider new drums and hardware to go with the brake shoes.
I use a screwdriver that I bent significantly to reach through the adjuster slot over the adjuster to contact the lever and push it off of the adjuster wheel while I use an adjuster "spoon" to back off the star wheel.
this still won't make your drum just slip off though, bust out the hammer and consider new drums and hardware to go with the brake shoes.
Oct 12, 2020 | 07:30 PM
#4
You're fighting two different problems here. The first is backing off the brake shoes to get past the wear on the drums (just keep spinning the adjuster in) the other is the rust build up one the hub to wheel stud.
Once you have the shoes retracted via the adjusmnent wheel it's a matter of breaking the wheel stud and brake hub loose with your dead-blow and not trashing your wheel stud threads..
..
Once you have the shoes retracted via the adjusmnent wheel it's a matter of breaking the wheel stud and brake hub loose with your dead-blow and not trashing your wheel stud threads..
..
Oct 12, 2020 | 07:38 PM
#5
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From: Kaua'i
You're fighting two different problems here. The first is backing off the brake shoes to get past the wear on the drums (just keep spinning the adjuster in) the other is the rust build up one the hub to wheel stud.
Once you have the shoes retracted via the adjusmnent wheel it's a matter of breaking the wheel stud and brake hub loose with your dead-blow and not trashing your wheel stud threads..
..
Once you have the shoes retracted via the adjusmnent wheel it's a matter of breaking the wheel stud and brake hub loose with your dead-blow and not trashing your wheel stud threads..
..
Oct 12, 2020 | 10:16 PM
#6
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I gave up for the night, couldn't get the thing off or the adjuster gear to move at all. Hammered the daylights out of it..nothing. I snipped the shoe spring pins and that didn't help either. I don't have any idea what to do next.
Oct 13, 2020 | 07:08 AM
#7
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From: Florida
You mentioned that there was a lot of rust on the springs. Most likely Co_94_PU is right, there is likely a lot of rust that has "frozen" the drum to the hub. Use your PB Blaster (or equivalent penetrating oil) to soak the area around the "center circle" of the drum & give it some time to work. That's where the hub comes thru the drum and the place where you're going to have the most rust build up between the two items. It might take several soakings. Using a dead-blow hammer is a good idea, but I've had to use a 5 pound sledgehammer before to get the drums loose. Since you're going with new drums you have no worries about damaging the old drums. Just don't whack your wheel studs! I go back and forth from one side of the drum face to the opposite with hammer blows; this seems to work best. Doing the rear drums on my '78 a while back it took 5 soakings and lots of hammering, but the old drum came off after about 20 minutes. It's amazing how well rust can work as a fastener. 
As for the adjuster, if you can spin the wheel freely and don't hear any drag on the drum from the shoes, you're good. It can only go one of two ways. It will "ratchet" in one direction and this expands the shoes. So you need to turn the star wheel in the opposite direction of that, while holding the arm away from the wheel, as akwheeler described. Turn it in that direction until it doesn't want to turn anymore and the shoes should be fully retracted. If the adjuster gear won't move at all and the drum is still locked, you've either gone in the wrong direction on the gear, or there is rust in there locking up the drum. I'd try the gear again in the opposite direction & see if it loosens up any. It also wouldn't hurt anything to throw some PB Blaster at the gear wheel; you're replacing the shoes anyway (right?) so oil contamination of the shoes is no biggie.
You said "it only seems to lock the drum again." If it's that rusty inside the drum, you could be knocking rust loose inside the drum and that's getting between the shoes & drum. Try shooting some compressed air in the adjuster hole and/or your newly opened shoe spring pin holes, to blast out any loose rust. Wear eye protection - rust in the eyes sucks big time.
Just be patient and keep working at it, it can take a lot of work to get a rusted drum off, even with the shoes backed out of the way.
As for the adjuster, if you can spin the wheel freely and don't hear any drag on the drum from the shoes, you're good. It can only go one of two ways. It will "ratchet" in one direction and this expands the shoes. So you need to turn the star wheel in the opposite direction of that, while holding the arm away from the wheel, as akwheeler described. Turn it in that direction until it doesn't want to turn anymore and the shoes should be fully retracted. If the adjuster gear won't move at all and the drum is still locked, you've either gone in the wrong direction on the gear, or there is rust in there locking up the drum. I'd try the gear again in the opposite direction & see if it loosens up any. It also wouldn't hurt anything to throw some PB Blaster at the gear wheel; you're replacing the shoes anyway (right?) so oil contamination of the shoes is no biggie.
You said "it only seems to lock the drum again." If it's that rusty inside the drum, you could be knocking rust loose inside the drum and that's getting between the shoes & drum. Try shooting some compressed air in the adjuster hole and/or your newly opened shoe spring pin holes, to blast out any loose rust. Wear eye protection - rust in the eyes sucks big time.
Just be patient and keep working at it, it can take a lot of work to get a rusted drum off, even with the shoes backed out of the way.
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Oct 13, 2020 | 11:07 AM
#8
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From: Kaua'i
You mentioned that there was a lot of rust on the springs. Most likely Co_94_PU is right, there is likely a lot of rust that has "frozen" the drum to the hub. Use your PB Blaster (or equivalent penetrating oil) to soak the area around the "center circle" of the drum & give it some time to work. That's where the hub comes thru the drum and the place where you're going to have the most rust build up between the two items. It might take several soakings. Using a dead-blow hammer is a good idea, but I've had to use a 5 pound sledgehammer before to get the drums loose. Since you're going with new drums you have no worries about damaging the old drums. Just don't whack your wheel studs! I go back and forth from one side of the drum face to the opposite with hammer blows; this seems to work best. Doing the rear drums on my '78 a while back it took 5 soakings and lots of hammering, but the old drum came off after about 20 minutes. It's amazing how well rust can work as a fastener.
As for the adjuster, if you can spin the wheel freely and don't hear any drag on the drum from the shoes, you're good. It can only go one of two ways. It will "ratchet" in one direction and this expands the shoes. So you need to turn the star wheel in the opposite direction of that, while holding the arm away from the wheel, as akwheeler described. Turn it in that direction until it doesn't want to turn anymore and the shoes should be fully retracted. If the adjuster gear won't move at all and the drum is still locked, you've either gone in the wrong direction on the gear, or there is rust in there locking up the drum. I'd try the gear again in the opposite direction & see if it loosens up any. It also wouldn't hurt anything to throw some PB Blaster at the gear wheel; you're replacing the shoes anyway (right?) so oil contamination of the shoes is no biggie.
You said "it only seems to lock the drum again." If it's that rusty inside the drum, you could be knocking rust loose inside the drum and that's getting between the shoes & drum. Try shooting some compressed air in the adjuster hole and/or your newly opened shoe spring pin holes, to blast out any loose rust. Wear eye protection - rust in the eyes sucks big time.
Just be patient and keep working at it, it can take a lot of work to get a rusted drum off, even with the shoes backed out of the way.
As for the adjuster, if you can spin the wheel freely and don't hear any drag on the drum from the shoes, you're good. It can only go one of two ways. It will "ratchet" in one direction and this expands the shoes. So you need to turn the star wheel in the opposite direction of that, while holding the arm away from the wheel, as akwheeler described. Turn it in that direction until it doesn't want to turn anymore and the shoes should be fully retracted. If the adjuster gear won't move at all and the drum is still locked, you've either gone in the wrong direction on the gear, or there is rust in there locking up the drum. I'd try the gear again in the opposite direction & see if it loosens up any. It also wouldn't hurt anything to throw some PB Blaster at the gear wheel; you're replacing the shoes anyway (right?) so oil contamination of the shoes is no biggie.
You said "it only seems to lock the drum again." If it's that rusty inside the drum, you could be knocking rust loose inside the drum and that's getting between the shoes & drum. Try shooting some compressed air in the adjuster hole and/or your newly opened shoe spring pin holes, to blast out any loose rust. Wear eye protection - rust in the eyes sucks big time.
Just be patient and keep working at it, it can take a lot of work to get a rusted drum off, even with the shoes backed out of the way.
1. Blocked the front wheels, jacked up the rear on the differential case and put jack stands under the axles on each side with backup jack stands under the side frame members.
2. Removed both wheels.
3. Grabbed two M8 x 35mm bolts, lubed them with anti-seize, and began backing off the driver side by screwing the M8 bolts into the threaded holes on the drum. After going back and forth and a few pops here and there, the driver side drum popped right off. The forward (closest to drivers side) shoe spring was off so replaced it; noticing the backside washer of the shoe spring was significantly rusted (bought a new spring/hardware kit for both brakes as a result).
4. Moved over to the passenger side and grabbed the M8 bolts and tried the same. The threads on the drum for the back out screws (as the gentleman mentioned above) stripped out before I could get the drum off. Note: the drum was free moving at this point and not locked in position.
5. I then PB blasted the hell out of the drum. I blasted the penetrating oil into the 2 stripped holes, the lug stud holes, and the small holes where the drum mates with the hub. I let it soak and beat around the lug studs (very carefully) with a 4lb. mini sledge. I did this for around 2 hours off and on with intermittent applications of PB blaster. No luck. I tried to move the adjuster gear on the drivers side and practice but didn't have the brake spoon for the other side with drum still on.
6. I called it a night and put the drivers side drum back on (with a light coat of anti seize grease on the mating surface of hub/drum) and put the wheels back on. I noticed the brakes still worked but there was much more travel in both my brake pedal and emergency brake lever. I knew this was not good.
7. I took a guys advice from another thread and went to Napa instead of AZ or OReillys and picked up a break spoon, spring tool, new hubs, and spring hardware kit for both drums.
8. I took off work early and went home to get to work. Repeated steps 1-3 and then started going back and forth from the drivers side adjuster wheel with a bent screw driver to keep the lever off the adjuster gear and trying to get some movement on the passenger side adjuster gear. Again, before I moved the adjuster wheel on the drivers side (drum still on) the hub was free moving. I adjusted the wrong way and pushed the shoes out. I tried to get the adjuster gear to move back the other way using the brake spoon and the bent screwdriver (suggested above) and could not get the adjuster gear to move.
9. I took a mechanic friend's advice and cut the brake shoe spring pins from the back of the wheel releasing the shoe springs inside the passenger side drum. He suggested this as it might release the pressure but the hub still would not move and I was still unable to hammer/adjuster gear twisted down. Throughout all of this I kept a steady stream of PB blaster on both the mating surface of the drum/hub and on the adjuster components within the drum. Still no action. I beat the living daylights out of the drum with no luck. The hub was stuck and wouldn't move. I pumped the brakes and got a little movement but shoes still stuck.
10. In desperation I tried to pry behind the drum and still got no movement. I called it a night because I have work today. Put the drivers side hub back on and put both wheels back on. Brakes still loose but work. I parked my 4runner in the drive way and borrowed a car to get to work today. That is where I am at and I don't know what else I can do at this point. I am probably going to pick up new adjusters/control hardware kits today as it seems like at least the passenger side adjuster is not behaving normally so might as well replace them both if I can get the drum off and I keep getting quotes around $1k to do this job which is ridiculous.
Sorry for the long post I just wanted to be as clear as possible on what I have done and where I am at so there is no confusion. I greatly appreciate how helpful you guys always are and im sorry again for snapping last night, I got super frustrated and should have not posted my rants. I will try again after work tonight and have a few hours to read through everything you guys suggest today. Again, super grateful for the time and effort you guys put into helping me. Hopefully I can return the favor someday.
Last edited by surf4life; Oct 13, 2020 at 11:21 AM.
Oct 13, 2020 | 08:25 PM
#9
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Finally got it. A better brake spoon was the key or maybe sitting all night after 1/3 can PB blaster did the trick, I don't know but the gear got moving today. Once I got the adjuster rod moved back in and the shoes freed up it took some heavy sledging and a pry bar...popped off. No lip on the hub but it was stuck to the shoe for some reason.
Oct 14, 2020 | 12:27 AM
#10
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Now I'm stuck again. I got the new drums and shoes installed. Thought I adjusted them properly before putting the wheels back on. Now I'm trying to adjust the shoes again. I put anti seize grease on the adjusters and the drivers side shoe is easy to adjust but the passenger side again is a big PITA. I will take the day off work tomorrow and try to figure it out. Do I need to bleed the brakes once I am done?
Oct 14, 2020 | 08:19 AM
#11
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From: Alaska
Now I'm stuck again. I got the new drums and shoes installed. Thought I adjusted them properly before putting the wheels back on. Now I'm trying to adjust the shoes again. I put anti seize grease on the adjusters and the drivers side shoe is easy to adjust but the passenger side again is a big PITA. I will take the day off work tomorrow and try to figure it out. Do I need to bleed the brakes once I am done?
You only need to bleed your brakes if you opened up the tubing/hoses or replaced the wheel cylinders etc.
If it has been decades since the last time your brakes were bled it would be a good idea to flush the entire system.
Oct 14, 2020 | 09:50 AM
#12
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Keep in mind the adjusters are mirror images of each other, on is left hand threads, the other is right handed.
You only need to bleed your brakes if you opened up the tubing/hoses or replaced the wheel cylinders etc.
If it has been decades since the last time your brakes were bled it would be a good idea to flush the entire system.
You only need to bleed your brakes if you opened up the tubing/hoses or replaced the wheel cylinders etc.
If it has been decades since the last time your brakes were bled it would be a good idea to flush the entire system.
Oct 14, 2020 | 12:54 PM
#13
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From: California
Something to think about...
When refreshing the brakes on the '86 p/u I decided to not replace the wheel cylinders, just like you.
Three weeks later, one of the cylinders let loose and spewed fluid all over the new brake shoes. Once these shoes get soaked in brake fluid, you need to replace them.
So the last time I was working on brake drums ('90 VW Vanagon), I replaced everything the first time. New cylinders are not too pricey.
Cheers
When refreshing the brakes on the '86 p/u I decided to not replace the wheel cylinders, just like you.
Three weeks later, one of the cylinders let loose and spewed fluid all over the new brake shoes. Once these shoes get soaked in brake fluid, you need to replace them.
So the last time I was working on brake drums ('90 VW Vanagon), I replaced everything the first time. New cylinders are not too pricey.
Cheers
Oct 14, 2020 | 01:00 PM
#14
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From: Kaua'i
Something to think about...
When refreshing the brakes on the '86 p/u I decided to not replace the wheel cylinders, just like you.
Three weeks later, one of the cylinders let loose and spewed fluid all over the new brake shoes. Once these shoes get soaked in brake fluid, you need to replace them.
So the last time I was working on brake drums ('90 VW Vanagon), I replaced everything the first time. New cylinders are not too pricey.
Cheers
When refreshing the brakes on the '86 p/u I decided to not replace the wheel cylinders, just like you.
Three weeks later, one of the cylinders let loose and spewed fluid all over the new brake shoes. Once these shoes get soaked in brake fluid, you need to replace them.
So the last time I was working on brake drums ('90 VW Vanagon), I replaced everything the first time. New cylinders are not too pricey.
Cheers
Oct 14, 2020 | 08:52 PM
#15
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From: Kaua'i
Finally got the brakes adjusted. Bled and flushed the brake system. The brake pedal is slightly tight and the parking brake is a couple inches shorter in travel now but it is all working great. Mahalo to everyone for your help.
Oct 14, 2020 | 09:05 PM
#16
yep just crank them till the touch then back them off, iirc the spec in the book is 1-2mm looking thru the inspection port.
Oct 15, 2020 | 07:47 AM
#19
Glad to hear you got the project buttoned up.
Yes, there is an inspection port on the backing plate. It may, or may not, have an oblong shaped rubber "stopper" in place. Rotate the wheel so you can see each brake shoe through the small opening, and inspect one at a time.
Cheers
Yes, there is an inspection port on the backing plate. It may, or may not, have an oblong shaped rubber "stopper" in place. Rotate the wheel so you can see each brake shoe through the small opening, and inspect one at a time.
Cheers
It was distracted and misspoke, the spec they give is iirc for pad thickness.
Regardless yes there are rubber plugged inspection holes on the backing plate. This gives you access to the pad Assembly and can apply a little force to the backing plate the pads are attached to.
Oct 15, 2020 | 10:47 AM
#20
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From: Kaua'i
Got a good laugh here, "rotate the wheel so you can see each brake shoe", if my brake move when I spin the wheel how do they stop the wheel?! Can't picture what you tried to describe.
It was distracted and misspoke, the spec they give is iirc for pad thickness.
Regardless yes there are rubber plugged inspection holes on the backing plate. This gives you access to the pad Assembly and can apply a little force to the backing plate the pads are attached to.
It was distracted and misspoke, the spec they give is iirc for pad thickness.
Regardless yes there are rubber plugged inspection holes on the backing plate. This gives you access to the pad Assembly and can apply a little force to the backing plate the pads are attached to.
