flecker

That would be the cold start injector. The Idle air valve is also temp operated, as well as other engine components. The cai is typical for running cold then warming up, it sticks open and runs rich.... thus the crappy idle and bogging. It floods up.

coops2k

Ok,
I am just looking at the shop manual, trying to see if there is something

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Flecker,

Well, the CSI and switch were the first things I checked, even before the build. Then, had the CSI done by RC Injectors, due to leaking. And, well, I've only replaced parts that were throwing codes, originally. Not sure what you mean by that, ....assuming you might not have read my build thread before, as I've been multi-metering and vacuum gauging and vacuum pumping and so on TO DEATH.

There is no smoke, AT ALL, no smell, pretty much AT ALL, either.

I'm also in Los Angeles, where believe it or not, Yard Parts like those that I would need to swap are HARDLY EVER AVAILABLE. When they are, I wind up in a situation like I did the other day, where I had to drive 6 hours round trip only to find out THEY WERE JUNK, or out and out the WRONG ONES. The AFM is coming from a guy on this site and, well, even when I took it to the dealer(know someone there), they could NOT find an AFM or TPS to swap it with that was specific to the 84-88 requirements that I would need. And, even if they did find it to be the problem, they'd add "throw it on the 'MACHINE' to the list for me for nothing, just to see if it was a lil lean or rich.

Thanks for the advice, Trecker....any other thoughts? Keep in mind, this is my primary vehicle and I don't have 5 months to fish through every yard in LA county for something that MIGHT be working. Sure, I can run a meter to it, like I have with almost every possible sensor and connector on this thing, including noids...but I need to get this solved, quickly, more than 'as cheaply as possible'......nonetheless, I fully agree with not just throwing parts and money at it, I do. I'm really trying here, man.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Rough idle, stalling out a bit and hesitation and poor acceleration is also pointing many to EGR, etc. I'm trying to borrow a fuel pressure test kit for the FPRegulator and I'm going to also check the VSV and the other one in front.

Yeah, Coops, I have a couple manuals and about 300 links saved, lol. Thanks alot for the input so far, guys....ANYTHING helps, trust me, and I've checked everything people have suggested other than the FPR, due to not having a Fuel Pres. Test Kit. Don't really wanna spend the 50$ if i don't have to, ....thus, being patient with the homie, lol.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

I did the manual test for the IACV as well, long time ago, ...one of the first things I did. It idled down cold and barely noticeable at all when warm, like it was supposed to. But WHO KNOWS, it could be freezing up at this point, and I'll check it out again.

I checked the CSI time switch too, a while back, and my reading was ok. Also, the symptoms are pretty much the same, now, but I will check it out again according to manual.

Have you had a problem like this with the CSI? Where it's not blowing black smoke, yet running this iffy?

yotaman85

so let me guess, your truck will run OK when coldish but will start to run like shat when warmed up... is this right?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Also, would it be like the CSI if, when I go to take off when this crap is starting, it just has no balls at all, then POW, takes off, and smooths out within a block....then only gets back to crap after idling down after stopping a minute later?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Yotaman, ...

Symptoms;

1. When cold, it ALMOST purrs..not perfect, but pretty dang close.
2. Still, it's ok when cold, but within a minute it goes into open loop(NOT SURE that has anything to do with it...but seems so), where it will idle down(within 5 seconds or so, not immediate)..sputter and seem to miss and, well, RUN LIKE CRAP, thereafter that first minute.
3. It doesn't stall, but that's probably because I have the idle-air screw out so much just to keep the idle up.
4. When running this way, if I back out the driveway and head up the street, it will BARELY want to move, until about 3000rpm's(sometimes, 2500) and then BAT out of hell, like a powerband. 2nd gear, same thing, then third, it's smoother, but still not all it should be. By the time I get around the block, park it, ....it seems to be purring(tiny miss but nothing SCARY).
5. It will purr when 'DRIVEN OUT OF THIS HICCUP', at idle, for about a minute(more if I'm lucky, like tonight...3 MIN! i know, i know, lol). But, eventually, the idle drops back down and it's the same old thing...AT IDLE! If I drive it at this point, it doesn't hesitate, etc.

yotaman85

make sure you test you ignition, thats my guess. the hotter it gets the less it works when its bad.

good luck.

PismoJoe

If it was CSI time switch, then could it shoot excess fuel @idle, then while driving its not noticeable, then back @ idle its bogging sort of due to CSI being on still?

Someone chime in with CSI info!!!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Joe,

Yeah, I suppose it could be, I'll check it out, again, tomorrow. Only thing is, even though it's worse now, it was still having a few issues before the build, and it passed smog without any trouble. TINY bit rich, but nothing crazy. When i walked in the injectors, I picked em up the next day and they said it was leaking a lil, but after repair it turned out "Excellent". I'll check the time switch again, also.

Trust me, guys, I've checked everything 20 times, lol.....but no problem, I don't mind checking till i get it!

Yotaman,

Yeah, I'll check on that again as well. Pretty sure my spark is HOT as fresh pancakes throughout the range, but I'll check it again, tomorrow.

mel63

Chef,

Boy, you've been busy! Had to catch up on your issues and progress this AM. Dang job keeps getting in the way!

The symptons you describe about the poor idle then "shooting off" at about 3000 rpms. This is very similiar to the symptons my 87 4Runner had when I purchased it. Checked everything like you have. On a whim, I pulled tht TPS. The movement of te TPS was very irradict, not smooth. Replaced the TPS and issue resolved.

Your values for resistance on the TPS look a little funny. Hate for you to throw new parts on, but my guess is the TPS.

My $0.02 worth....

Good luck.

Mark

Kiroshu

Did you ever get the Other AFM? You said you OEM one had black RTV on top of the adjusting screw? Thats already a bad issue. That screw should never never never never never ever ever ever ever be messed with or you will never get it right again. You tested the AFM?... I don't have my OEM Yota 22re 6" think book around but if any of the tests were out of spec the AFM is consdiered bad.

On these trucks The AFM(Air Flow Meter) plays a huge part in engine performance. It determines about 80% of the tucks Air fuel ratio. If its not working right nothing on the truck will.

My opinion is to get another one i've had many probs with tampered AFM's. I'd replace it and see what we got. What is your timing set at? Codes?

yotarob2005

Stating tuned here also Chef. Here's to hoping your new AFM shows up soon, my bet is that is the problem.

flecker

Hey Chefyota4x4....

I see your in PV. I am out here working at BP in Carson until the begining of July, then home and back again after a few weeks. Would be happy to swing by and have a look see, I have owned several 22re's over the years and can't gaurantee anything but would help none the less.

Could be something simple a second set of eyes might help you see.

Let me know if your interested. If I am not here, you can try Pirate4x4.

thook

If the fuel pressure regulator is bad, then it would leak fuel past the internal diaphragm, usually. It works very simply. So, pull the vac line off and see there's any fuel in it. If not, it's probably fine. Fuel delivery could still be an issue and, to me, sounds like it very well might be still the issue. New fuel pump, yeah, but hopefully you've already ruled out the filter? Then, there's getting consistant voltage to the pump. You have the fuel delivery circuit in the airflow meter and the fuel pump relay. Say you're getting a decent idle.....maybe not perfect, but decent....then, you put the engine under load and not enough fuel is getting to the engine consistantly. Follow?

The other thing is if the fuel pressure up valve is working. On the rear of the valve cover, you should see it.

The CSI wouldn't cause this problem. But, if you want to eliminate as one, get the truck warm and unplug it. Wont' deliver any more fuel, if it is, and if it's leaking.....well....that still wouldn't be causing this. (Edit: I see you already have had it serviced. Doubt it's leaking.)

I'm voting fuel delivery.

thook

BTW, the ECU's in open loop when cold and heavy load. It goes into closed loop when warm, warm idle, and under light load/cruising conditions.

See autoshop101 technical articles if you'd like to learn more about that.

thook

Also, remember if you're putting on new parts, that doesn't necessarily you're getting good voltage signals at the ECU, so the thing to do then is test at the ECU side. Wiring, connectors.........that sort of thing.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, Mark..... Still waiting on the AFM(coming from NC, not surprising). As far as your "TPS" comments, I've seen what you're saying alot, and I've always thought it was between that and the AFM or that it was some Temp.-related sensor. THANKS, Mark!

Hey Kiroshu, Thanks man! Yeah, the dealer thought AFM as well, and he never messed with the screw, just tried swapping others in, but couldn't find my specific AFM, so no luck. I'm getting mine in the UPSlow by today or tomorrow, most likely,....keep you posted. Far as timing,---5* BTDC(Hardly makes difference at 8* or otherwise). Could be misaligned Dizzy, but I really doubt it as it purrs at times,...seems more specific to Fuel/Air or Temp Sensor(electronics). "Codes?" None... I've stated, above, that it's weird, .."No codes from the beginning, other than the O2, which I replaced, OEM"--This switched it from running like crap, cold and fully warm to crap throughout a minute from Cold to 3-5 Minutes at idle where it will clear up, OR, ...1 Minute of driving it around in that range. However, now it's idling back down after warm up, so DANGIT, LOL. If you read back a bit you'll see what I mean about the symptoms. Thanks for checking in, Kiroshu, MUCH THANKS!

MY HOPE is that it's the problem, Rob! lol. Whatever it is, I don't really care, as long as it's something I can replace or repair. Nothing has beat me yet that's come up, including the tearing down, pulling or installing the sucker,...but this '40 RELATED ELECTRONIC OR BI-METALIC OR VACUUM OR ....whatever related things can really get to a patient man, ....I'm tellin ya! lol.

GOOD LORD, PLEASE DO, FLECKER!!!!! lol. I'm right off Crenshaw and Palos Verdes Dr. North(bout 100 yards). Anytime you feel you can do this, if you let me know the night before or even early that day, I'LL TAKE IT OFF and GRATEFULLY accept your help! Thanks, so much, man! I'll shoot you a PM, wait to hear back. Hopefully you get this or an email Notification of the PM, and we can hook up on that.

Hey Thook, thanks alot for chiming in. Ok, well, ending spot, first. Just to clear this up; I pulled the CSI Time Switch Connector when fully warm and I believe the CSI plug, itself, too...No change occurred, even waiting a full 30 seconds to see if EXCESS fuel needed to get out, before I ruled that out. I'll check it again though, to be sure. I doubt it, but I'm not sure of anything, and I will gladly recheck ANYTHING I need to to figure this out. Far as the AFM, yeah, I have a mild idea of how that works in conjunction with the rest. Still think it might be that or the TPS, considering my issues and related ''commentary of others on their issues", ya know? But who knows...Yeah, could be Fuel. Oh yeah; ....Yes, new fuel filter. One thing though, .....I'll repost my symptoms in the next post below, because I don't want people thinking it's doing something it's not...Harder to diagnose that way, right? Thanks alot, Thook, I'll share more today as to what I find.

Dang, ....that is one that MANY have backward, if in fact you're correct(I wouldn't doubt a man who brings pages for reference-proof, hahaha. Thanks again, ....Well, you know what I meant though, right? Like I said, I'll post my symptoms again, below in the next post I make.

Yeah, been reading up on the tests for the ECU(extra info and tricks on 4Crawlers site), and I guess it's time, if the AFM or otherwise adjustments doesn't fix it, to really test that computer. I'd like to just throw in another one, like Flecker suggested...but I'm telling you, here in the Peoples Republic of Los Angeles, lol, ....AFM-TPS-T.BODY= SCARCEEEEEEEE! The ones I do find are JUNK! They have a crooked system here in L.A.....the yards, including the Pull-a-part yards(DIY), yank all the crucial stuff, first, and sell much of it on ebay. Plus, many of them they wont allow returns on, if they're electrical. I found a good yard, "Japanese Truck Dismantlers", .....but THEY JUST DON'T HAVE AFM's or IACV's ....or couple others. I guess people get on a list with them, as the dealer mechanic I know couldn't find one, either, ...ANYWHERE!



THANKS SO MUCH, guys, ....new found hope! lol.

Thanks, as well, to the moderator who renamned my thread. I'M SO SORRY for labeling it with such a STUPID NAME, lol. Oh well, guess I'd just reached that point of 'AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH', when I finally decided to re-introduce my problems to the site, lol. Seriously, thanks, it's already reaping div's!

M.W.M., C.E.C. and WANNABE HOMECHANIC! LOL ON!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Repost of Symptoms;

1. When cold, it ALMOST purrs..not perfect, but pretty dang close.
2. Still, it's ok when cold, but within a minute it goes into that loop(NOT SURE that has anything to do with it...but seems so), where it will idle down(takes about 5 seconds or so, not immediate)..sputter and seem to miss and, well, RUN LIKE CRAP, thereafter that first minute.
3. It doesn't stall, but that's probably because I have the idle-air screw out so much just to keep the idle up.
4. When running this way, if I back out the driveway and head up the street, it will BARELY want to move, until about 3000rpm's(sometimes, 2500) and then BAT out of hell, like a powerband. 2nd gear, same thing, then third, it's smoother, but still not all it should be. By the time I get around the block, park it, ....it seems to be purring(tiny miss but nothing SCARY).
5. It will purr when 'DRIVEN OUT OF THIS HICCUP', at idle, for about a minute(more if I'm lucky, like tonight...3 MIN! i know, i know, lol). But, eventually, the idle drops back down and it's the same old thing...AT IDLE! If I drive it at this point, it doesn't hesitate, etc., anymore, ...but it doesn't want to keep a smooth-750idle.

ONE IMPORTANT SYMPTOM(REACTION) TO MENTION; .........

Whenver it's doing this, whether warm or hot, if I kill the motor, restarting it, ...it will idle SMOOTH for about 5-10 seconds, MAX! Then, it eventually idles back down to WHATEVER THIS IS!

I've tried advancing it and screwing the Idle Adj. screw back in and then out to specs, .....NONE OF THIS HELPS! I have to find the postings on my build thread for the Coil Readings, etc., .....because as I remember, the only "ODD" ones I obtained were from the TPS and AFM....(had a strange one from the CSI Time switch, but I was just reading the meter wrong). Since then, I've retested things, ....A LOT! Just running out of ideas.