Notices
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

50RPM idle plz help

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 1, 2023 | 10:06 PM
  #1  
tumbl3w33d's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Hawaii
50RPM idle plz help

I'll try to make this as clear as possible
​​​95 4runner 4x4 auto 3vze sat for around two years due to struggling to get uphill. Previous owner diagnosed timing belt issues, couldn't get the crank bolt off, gave up and then I got her.

Now this 4runner is my first timing job, I've maintained my own vehicles since I got driving but never anything major. I did everything as perfect as I could, also did the EGR delete while it was apart. get her back together just to be chasing a crank no spark. Refusing to believe it was the ECU, I replaced the entire spark system, plugs, wires, dizzy, ignition coil, ignitor, then finally the ECU after I tore into it and found burnt resistors. Ordered a new one through O'Reilly's, put her in and finally heard a purr, well rather a hum.
Rig is idling at around the first tick on the tach less than 100rpm. Hit the throttle and she almost instantly dies out. Shut her off and recheck EGR delete, spark system, and intake. Everything was good, so I started down the fuel route, thinking inadequate pressure. ​​​​​​Took apart the throttle body and spent an hour or two cleaning it out. No improvement. Didn't/dont know how to test TPS function. Cleaned the MAF a good bit but didn't rip into it. No improvement. Swapped fuel filter, pump, strainer, and put in fresh gas. No improvement.
Which leaves me to ask what is there next?
Only have a few things I'm thinking it could be, TPS, fuel pressure regulator, stuck injectors or the MAF. MAF tested decent when I was chasing no spark, cleaned up alright.
At this point I'm a 3.4 with a service history away from swapping the motor but I've put so much into this engine already I want to use it. So I humbly ask the yota gods to help me troubleshoot this.
​​​​​​
​​​​​​
​​​​​

​​​​​​
​​​​​
​​​​
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2023 | 05:06 AM
  #2  
scope103's Avatar
Registered User
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,379
Likes: 871
From: San Francisco East Bay
How did you check the spark system? The easy way is with the inductive pickup of your timing light on each plug wire. If the light flashes, the plug is firing.

Did I mention timing light? Your symptoms sound a lot like timing way-off. If it is really idling as slow as 100 rpm (hard to believe, but ...) reading the mark will be difficult, but you should be able to see enough to know which way to nudge the distributor.

Try to keep away from the "parts cannon." Be systematic. Swapping the fuel filter on spec is okay, but don't mess with the fuel pump if it's producing the right pressure. Yeah, you might need a gauge.

Last, you don't have a MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor). You have a VAF (Volume Air Flow sensor). Different technology. Or, just say AFM and you'll always be right.

Reply
Old Nov 2, 2023 | 08:13 AM
  #3  
BBQ Tables's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 37
Likes: 9
So you did do the timing belt, and set it up per the marks on the new belt or the marks on the crank/camshaft sprockets?
This does sound like a timing issue, did you set ignition timing with the short pin in the diag connector, and does the timing jump way up just off idle?
Also, the rpm gauge "starts" at 500rpm, so if the needle points to the very bottom of the gauge you are really around 500.
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2023 | 11:32 AM
  #4  
tumbl3w33d's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by scope103
How did you check the spark system? The easy way is with the inductive pickup of your timing light on each plug wire. If the light flashes, the plug is firing.

Did I mention timing light? Your symptoms sound a lot like timing way-off. If it is really idling as slow as 100 rpm (hard to believe, but ...) reading the mark will be difficult, but you should be able to see enough to know which way to nudge the distributor.

Try to keep away from the "parts cannon." Be systematic. Swapping the fuel filter on spec is okay, but don't mess with the fuel pump if it's producing the right pressure. Yeah, you might need a gauge.

Last, you don't have a MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor). You have a VAF (Volume Air Flow sensor). Different technology. Or, just say AFM and you'll always be right.
Thanks for the reply.
I don't have a timing light yet, just used a lil spark tester light, all plugs fired. Also every component in the spark system is new, down to the ecu. When I installed the new dizzy(whole assembly not cap n rotor), it was before I had gotten it running. Did the timing belt as meticulously as I could, took my time, crank and cam marks were lined up perfectly with the marks on the block and belt. Rotated quite a few times to ensure proper timing, tension and tooth alignment. Aligned crank to TDC then installed the new dizzy to fire on 1 as per the book.Timing these motors is still new to me but I'm almost positive it's near perfect. As that's what the PO diagnosed that's where I started the troubleshooting
Fuel filter was in rough shape, when I cracked the line only got a lil drip no squirting so I was assuming low pressure but I don't have a tester, dropped the fuel tank because the fuel gauge was stuck, did a water test on the old fuel pump and it wasn't functioning good.
At this point I've already unloaded a clip from the parts cannon (plugs,wires,dizzy,ECU, EGR delete kit, ignition coil, ignitor, fuel filter, pump, fixed exhaust leaks) and spent over a month doing research and testing different things, trying different fixes. Plus cleaning everything I can remove short of the intake plenum. Could probably have gotten away with just the ECU, dizzy, plugs and wires but everything was original or dated so it was about time.
Fixed every code except for a code 21 for O2 sensor (I think?) which I know was out before and it's not coming off with the tools I have. Unplugging the O2 made no difference, same with the AFM*, which tested "in spec".

Now you've got me fourth guessing my timing, so I'll go back to that and recheck it. Sorry about the MAF, AFM mixup am a noob.


​​​​​​



Reply
Old Nov 2, 2023 | 12:18 PM
  #5  
tumbl3w33d's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Hawaii
Originally Posted by BBQ Tables
So you did do the timing belt, and set it up per the marks on the new belt or the marks on the crank/camshaft sprockets?
This does sound like a timing issue, did you set ignition timing with the short pin in the diag connector, and does the timing jump way up just off idle?
Also, the rpm gauge "starts" at 500rpm, so if the needle points to the very bottom of the gauge you are really around 500.
​​​​​​Thanks for the tidbit about the tach starting at 500 rpm. It's basically sitting between zero and the first tick, barely running but not running roughly, stalls if I give it more than a touch of throttle.
Did the timing belt per the FSM, aligned the crank and cam bolts to the block marks, then aligned the belt marks with those marks. When I got the vehicle the timing was completely off, right cam at 12 o'clock, left cam at 3:30, crank at 6 o'clock. It was mid belt job so I assumed PO is responsible for that mess. Tensioner was shot from the crank washer being installed backwards, so the belt was slipping.
I installed the new dizzy before I had gotten it to start. Old dizzy was really rusty inside, but the real no spark was caused by a short in the ECU, which was throwing a code 23, this I changed everything else spark related before I ripped into the ECU. I followed the FSM protocol for installing a new dizzy, and it basically lined right back up where the old one was. Couldn't do the jumper to set ignition timing as I couldn't get the motor to run with the ING circuit shorted in the ecu, so I went the manual(?) route.

Now that I've finally got the motor to run again, with clean gas and a not fried ECU(330 for a reman shipped to Hawaii), I'll give the timing another check. I was pretty meticulous about the project but again I'm new to it.

Another thing to mention is the wack "security system" that's installed. There was a jumper from the blue-yellow and brown wires leading right under the stereo to a few splice taps in the ignition column wires which lead back into a connector that plugs into itself. See attached.



Reconnected what seemed to be factory (taped pair in second pic) and unplugged the connection. The red-white wire runs to the door sensors then ties into the harness near the ECU(I think)

​​
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2023 | 12:55 PM
  #6  
scope103's Avatar
Registered User
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,379
Likes: 871
From: San Francisco East Bay
"Ignition timing" (mostly position of distributor) and "valve timing" (mostly position of cam(s)) are related but not at all the same. If you're really careful, you should be able to replace the timing belt without messing up the cam timing. If you're really careful, you still can't replace a distributor and get better than close.

You're already spent a lot on parts (and probably more than was needed). Don't let $30 keep you from setting the ignition timing. https://www.harborfreight.com/timing...nce-40963.html

(While you're at it, I'm sure you need one of these: https://www.harborfreight.com/electr...ter-59434.html)
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2023 | 03:08 PM
  #7  
BBQ Tables's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 37
Likes: 9
You need to set ignition timing with the timing light and the short pin to put into diag mode. Otherwise you are just chasing your tail.
The wiring looks like radio amplifier connections, so I don't think that has anything to do with your issues, but get some better pics of the big metal box and we might be able to tell what it is..
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
levee-11
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners
1
Nov 28, 2021 04:35 AM
Schrobee
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners
4
Jan 4, 2019 08:19 AM
Wilky77
93-98 T100s
3
Oct 23, 2013 06:30 PM
frozenwave
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners
46
Sep 5, 2012 10:29 AM




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:26 AM.