5.29's and 37's questions
01-03-2007, 11:30 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
5.29's and 37's questions
I want to apologize in advance because I am totally positive this has been discussed but I just can't pinpoint a search to give me the answer Im lookn for. =(
I know some of you guys out their run 35's, 37's, bigger smaller whatever but Im lookn for some opinions.
I've read, in non-specific threads about peoples experiences with the larger tires but am still torn between whether a tire larger than a 35 is really beneficial on a truck like mine.
I have a 1987 pickup, single cab, short bed with a 22R.
What it will be when Im done with it is a 22RE with 5.29 gearing, ported head and new cam. (Summer '07 is the ETA on that). Marlin Crawler or Trail Gear 4-5" lift (complete). (I have a rebuilt rear axle with marlins chromoly axles, new seals, bearings and a detroit right now)
This *IS* my Daily Driver and I plan to keep it that way. Long trips I use a different vehicle but I do travel (hour-long, maybe longer) trips in this truck on the highway. At present I have 31x10.5's and I cruise (flat terrain) easily at 70-75mph. Hills I pull 60mph in 4th, bout it. HAHA I expect an even greater hit to performance with larger tires and lower gearing but I have no experience with this and know no one locally that owns a Toyota.
What are everyones opinions on running 35's and larger... but really realistically I wouldnt personally go larger than 37's... Anything larger seems rediculous.
However, is there a real benefit to Off-road performance running 37" tires over 35's?
I like the "look" of 37's on a toyota like mine (pictures) but by no means dont think 35's look wimpy. Overall looks arent as important as performance, but I we gotta draw a line on that somewhere.
THANKS!
I know some of you guys out their run 35's, 37's, bigger smaller whatever but Im lookn for some opinions.
I've read, in non-specific threads about peoples experiences with the larger tires but am still torn between whether a tire larger than a 35 is really beneficial on a truck like mine.
I have a 1987 pickup, single cab, short bed with a 22R.
What it will be when Im done with it is a 22RE with 5.29 gearing, ported head and new cam. (Summer '07 is the ETA on that). Marlin Crawler or Trail Gear 4-5" lift (complete). (I have a rebuilt rear axle with marlins chromoly axles, new seals, bearings and a detroit right now)
This *IS* my Daily Driver and I plan to keep it that way. Long trips I use a different vehicle but I do travel (hour-long, maybe longer) trips in this truck on the highway. At present I have 31x10.5's and I cruise (flat terrain) easily at 70-75mph. Hills I pull 60mph in 4th, bout it. HAHA I expect an even greater hit to performance with larger tires and lower gearing but I have no experience with this and know no one locally that owns a Toyota.
What are everyones opinions on running 35's and larger... but really realistically I wouldnt personally go larger than 37's... Anything larger seems rediculous.
However, is there a real benefit to Off-road performance running 37" tires over 35's?
I like the "look" of 37's on a toyota like mine (pictures) but by no means dont think 35's look wimpy. Overall looks arent as important as performance, but I we gotta draw a line on that somewhere.
THANKS!
01-03-2007, 11:33 PM
#2
Registered User
Thread Starter
A buddy of mine has a '02 Dodge 2500 with 5.5" fabtech and 37" toyo's. I gotta admit, it looks good on that truck, but parking my rig next to his It's hard for me to imagine those tires on my truck!
Though, I know its not out of the question. But is it more of just for looks or would I actually find it benefiting to run 37's over 35's?
*my brother has 35" Mud Rovers (identical to what I was thinking of running on my truck) on his 99' F350
Though, I know its not out of the question. But is it more of just for looks or would I actually find it benefiting to run 37's over 35's?
*my brother has 35" Mud Rovers (identical to what I was thinking of running on my truck) on his 99' F350
01-04-2007, 02:02 AM
#3
Contributing Member
You have an 87, so unless you've done a SAS you probably shouldn't be running 35's much less 37's. I'm also assuming that you have a 22RE not a 22R since I can't see why you would put a carb on instead of keeping the fuel injection......
How good the tires look on the truck doesn't mean anything if you can't actually use them for anything.
If you have done a SAS and some axle beefing, then yea, you could run 37's, but I don't think they'll help that much and they won't do as well with 5.29s as 35's. I also don't think going lower than 5.29's in gears is wise for the Toyota 8". Some argue otherwise, but I prefer to be conservative with it, because I don't have the money to risk. So unless you want to get completley new axle assemblies with larger ring gears, just to regear to 5.71 or something, for 2 more inches in height.......I wouldn't get 37's. Regardless, I think dual cases and 4:1 T-case gears in one or both would be a plus with 35's or 37's.
Another opinion that you might not agree with, but If you go through with all of these plans....this truck would not be very street friendly. If not from a drivability standpoint from a fiscal one. It's gonna cost alot to operate and maintain as a DD. If I were in your shoes, I'd get something else to drive to work or school or to the store or whatever, and trailer this thing around, or at least reserve it for off road trips if you are going to drive it.
Final thoughts, think long and hard about it before you start sinking alot, because the last thing you want to do is get into building and not have enough cash then either half ass the rest or sit on a useless truck until you get the money. You are talking about a good chunk of money.
How good the tires look on the truck doesn't mean anything if you can't actually use them for anything.
If you have done a SAS and some axle beefing, then yea, you could run 37's, but I don't think they'll help that much and they won't do as well with 5.29s as 35's. I also don't think going lower than 5.29's in gears is wise for the Toyota 8". Some argue otherwise, but I prefer to be conservative with it, because I don't have the money to risk. So unless you want to get completley new axle assemblies with larger ring gears, just to regear to 5.71 or something, for 2 more inches in height.......I wouldn't get 37's. Regardless, I think dual cases and 4:1 T-case gears in one or both would be a plus with 35's or 37's.
Another opinion that you might not agree with, but If you go through with all of these plans....this truck would not be very street friendly. If not from a drivability standpoint from a fiscal one. It's gonna cost alot to operate and maintain as a DD. If I were in your shoes, I'd get something else to drive to work or school or to the store or whatever, and trailer this thing around, or at least reserve it for off road trips if you are going to drive it.
Final thoughts, think long and hard about it before you start sinking alot, because the last thing you want to do is get into building and not have enough cash then either half ass the rest or sit on a useless truck until you get the money. You are talking about a good chunk of money.
01-04-2007, 03:28 AM
#4
Registered User
Also, what are these "operating costs for a DD" you're speaking about?
I see once every few years spending twice as much on tires...
If they're properly geared and clear well, they're only 2 inches bigger than 35's and I wouldn't expect to have any issues with 37's that you wouldn't possibly have with 35's.
My truck is a street queen and as such I'm planning on another 4" lift and 37's or possibly 38's in a month or so. I say try it out and see what happens. You may hate them, or you may like them.
If I did any heavy off-roading though I probably wouldn't go over 35's with the stock drivetrain.
01-04-2007, 04:50 AM
#6
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I currently drive a 92 with a stock motor, 4.88's and 35's, on IFS. My commute is 16 miles, back roads... I have plenty of power for that, and get 18-21mpg... The hwy sucks, plain and simple... Its not so much a matter of gearing, as it is the weight and rotational mass of 35" tires... I can do 75 on flat ground, but once it start to climb, even .1* I am in 4th and slowing.. against my will...
You mentioned SAS in your original thread, which would mean you plan on wheeling it... I found a HUGE performance difference in 33s vs 35s.. personally if I sas'd I would stay 35's.. they work wonders and are less strain... 37's arent much bigger thou so it can be done....
As far as gearing, go with 5.29 or 5.71 or whatever you want, it still wont be enough, you WILL have to do xcase gears if you want any amount of slow speed control. With 35's and 4.88's I am no where near low enough for controled crawling, even 5.29's wouldnt do it, 5.71's maybe... but I would have to many r's on the street. My speedo is dead on with 4.88's and 35's... so I would guess 5.29 and 37 is pretty close to OEM too.... I would go with that, and either do a single 4.7 xcase, or dual cases.. .the dual cases will help your front driveshaft angle anyhow...
As far as your motor.. go with an engnbldr head and 261C cam, it will suit your needs best. One thing most poeple dont do is a heavy flywheel. I did one last year and it is AMAZING the inertia it provides at low RPM's.. short steep hills on trails I have wheeled for years used to take low range, I can now get up them in 2hi... The arount town driving is greatly improved, the only thing you loose with the heavy flywheel is compression braking, its still there, just no where as pronounced..... But dont forget its a 22RE, even with a 25% gain in performance thats only 145hp, which is what engnbldr claims you can see... I prefer his stuff to LC, espically cams, as LC's cam is the "max" your ECU can handle, so you are always at the limit of the ecu, the ones that engnbldr sells are not as radical, and he claims similar power.. just my .02.. but the 22RE ECU doesnt like radial cams (ovrrdrive will disagree) but my experiance was that at sealevel it was okay, gain some elevation and all it did was burn more fuel, for no performance gains (TRD Stage II Cam..similar to the LC EFI Pro).... like I said, just my .2c
I would start off with doing your engine work, then gears.. then do the xcase (if you go dual cases) at the same time as the lift, why pay to have driveshafts redone twice....
You mentioned SAS in your original thread, which would mean you plan on wheeling it... I found a HUGE performance difference in 33s vs 35s.. personally if I sas'd I would stay 35's.. they work wonders and are less strain... 37's arent much bigger thou so it can be done....
As far as gearing, go with 5.29 or 5.71 or whatever you want, it still wont be enough, you WILL have to do xcase gears if you want any amount of slow speed control. With 35's and 4.88's I am no where near low enough for controled crawling, even 5.29's wouldnt do it, 5.71's maybe... but I would have to many r's on the street. My speedo is dead on with 4.88's and 35's... so I would guess 5.29 and 37 is pretty close to OEM too.... I would go with that, and either do a single 4.7 xcase, or dual cases.. .the dual cases will help your front driveshaft angle anyhow...
As far as your motor.. go with an engnbldr head and 261C cam, it will suit your needs best. One thing most poeple dont do is a heavy flywheel. I did one last year and it is AMAZING the inertia it provides at low RPM's.. short steep hills on trails I have wheeled for years used to take low range, I can now get up them in 2hi... The arount town driving is greatly improved, the only thing you loose with the heavy flywheel is compression braking, its still there, just no where as pronounced..... But dont forget its a 22RE, even with a 25% gain in performance thats only 145hp, which is what engnbldr claims you can see... I prefer his stuff to LC, espically cams, as LC's cam is the "max" your ECU can handle, so you are always at the limit of the ecu, the ones that engnbldr sells are not as radical, and he claims similar power.. just my .02.. but the 22RE ECU doesnt like radial cams (ovrrdrive will disagree) but my experiance was that at sealevel it was okay, gain some elevation and all it did was burn more fuel, for no performance gains (TRD Stage II Cam..similar to the LC EFI Pro).... like I said, just my .2c
I would start off with doing your engine work, then gears.. then do the xcase (if you go dual cases) at the same time as the lift, why pay to have driveshafts redone twice....
Last edited by AH64ID; 01-04-2007 at 04:53 AM.
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01-04-2007, 05:15 AM
#8
Contributing Member
I thought it was a big jump going from 31's to 33's. Now that I have a little more power I'm considering 35s but I'm worried about balancing issues (the tire jocks are already having a hard time), even more rotational mass (stopping is important too), raising the center of gravity (rolling looks like a real bummer), fuel economy (I'm cheap).
01-04-2007, 06:53 AM
#9
Contributing Member
Seriously, how much are you gonna 'wheel it and what kind?
Personally, I won't go over 33's on the IFS. I wheel my truck pretty hard and the increased stress/chance of breakage is not worth it.
As for gearing with a manual trans:
4.88 for 33's
5.29 for 35's
5.71 for 37's
with auto (because the overdrive is so tall):
5.29 for 33's
5.71 for 35's (and it'll still be a dog)
37's fuhgeddaboutit
Personally, I won't go over 33's on the IFS. I wheel my truck pretty hard and the increased stress/chance of breakage is not worth it.
As for gearing with a manual trans:
4.88 for 33's
5.29 for 35's
5.71 for 37's
with auto (because the overdrive is so tall):
5.29 for 33's
5.71 for 35's (and it'll still be a dog)
37's fuhgeddaboutit
Last edited by tc; 01-04-2007 at 06:55 AM.
01-04-2007, 08:33 AM
#10
Let me get this straight.
You want to do SAS, 5.29 stock t-case. You're wondering if you should go with 35's or 37's....right?
I'm runing SAS with 5spd and 35's now. Considering that I have V6 but atleast 1K lbs heavier than your truck, I'd say go for it. You would have to limit your upper travel more for 37's..1" more. As for gearing, with 5.29, I'm a little lower than factory spec cause my speedometer is faster than it should be. With 37's you might be about right.
Like any lift mod, your driving behavior will have to be modify along with it. You will loose some rolling resistance, blah blah blah.....so you'll get there maybe 5 min. later.....so what?
I'd think more about your driving technique after putting on the locker than anything else since where you're located, you'll see rain and maybe snow too.
You want to do SAS, 5.29 stock t-case. You're wondering if you should go with 35's or 37's....right?
I'm runing SAS with 5spd and 35's now. Considering that I have V6 but atleast 1K lbs heavier than your truck, I'd say go for it. You would have to limit your upper travel more for 37's..1" more. As for gearing, with 5.29, I'm a little lower than factory spec cause my speedometer is faster than it should be. With 37's you might be about right.
Like any lift mod, your driving behavior will have to be modify along with it. You will loose some rolling resistance, blah blah blah.....so you'll get there maybe 5 min. later.....so what?
I'd think more about your driving technique after putting on the locker than anything else since where you're located, you'll see rain and maybe snow too.
01-04-2007, 08:50 AM
#11
Registered User
I run 37's with 5.29's in my 95. Problem is I have a solid axle and a 3.4
Personally, having a signicantly molested DD, I advise a different route.
The truth is, if you want a reliable, fuel efficient DD that is easy to take everywhere, you already have it. No, it is not cool on the internet nor does it reflect anything about your wang, but it goes places smoothly.
To me, 35's vs. 37's is a wash. Even geared, your truck is going to be slower than it is now. It will stop worse, get worse mileage and be harder on components. 37's, if you can fit them, will do everything the 35's will do easier.
I love my truck and enjoy driving it. I just hate to see someone trying to logically justify any of this. It is not logical or justifiable. I wanted 37's to fill out the wheel wells, full width axles to keep it stable and a 3.4 so I can do the speed limit. None of it makes sense.
Personally, having a signicantly molested DD, I advise a different route.
The truth is, if you want a reliable, fuel efficient DD that is easy to take everywhere, you already have it. No, it is not cool on the internet nor does it reflect anything about your wang, but it goes places smoothly.
To me, 35's vs. 37's is a wash. Even geared, your truck is going to be slower than it is now. It will stop worse, get worse mileage and be harder on components. 37's, if you can fit them, will do everything the 35's will do easier.
I love my truck and enjoy driving it. I just hate to see someone trying to logically justify any of this. It is not logical or justifiable. I wanted 37's to fill out the wheel wells, full width axles to keep it stable and a 3.4 so I can do the speed limit. None of it makes sense.
01-04-2007, 09:37 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
The truck is IFS right now but I have a SAS planned for the summer, Marlin or TG, not sure which yet. I have the axle already and plan to rebuild it the same as I did the rear.
The truck will be a frame-up build utilizing the body of my existing truck onto a STRAIGHT frame that's SAS'd, at which the same time I'd like to do all the other mods, money permitting.
35's was my original plan, infact Dunlop Mud Rovers, the same as I have now. I really like the tire and am totally pleased with how it's performed on everything but ice, doh.
I think I'll leave the 37's to the fullsize trucks =) Im honestly looking for the greatest technical performance possible, not looks or wang magnification, ha
The truck will be a frame-up build utilizing the body of my existing truck onto a STRAIGHT frame that's SAS'd, at which the same time I'd like to do all the other mods, money permitting.
35's was my original plan, infact Dunlop Mud Rovers, the same as I have now. I really like the tire and am totally pleased with how it's performed on everything but ice, doh.
I think I'll leave the 37's to the fullsize trucks =) Im honestly looking for the greatest technical performance possible, not looks or wang magnification, ha
01-04-2007, 09:40 AM
#13
Contributing Member
01-04-2007, 09:42 AM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
Sorry, the motor is a 22R right now. I plan to EFI it this year. Not the other way around.
I got a lot of ˟˟˟˟˟ planned for this truck this year, jeez... just realized that, lol. '07 here i come! =)
I got a lot of ˟˟˟˟˟ planned for this truck this year, jeez... just realized that, lol. '07 here i come! =)
01-04-2007, 09:49 AM
#16
Contributing Member
I run 37's with 5.29's in my 95. Problem is I have a solid axle and a 3.4
Personally, having a signicantly molested DD, I advise a different route.
The truth is, if you want a reliable, fuel efficient DD that is easy to take everywhere, you already have it. No, it is not cool on the internet nor does it reflect anything about your wang, but it goes places smoothly.
To me, 35's vs. 37's is a wash. Even geared, your truck is going to be slower than it is now. It will stop worse, get worse mileage and be harder on components. 37's, if you can fit them, will do everything the 35's will do easier.
I love my truck and enjoy driving it. I just hate to see someone trying to logically justify any of this. It is not logical or justifiable. I wanted 37's to fill out the wheel wells, full width axles to keep it stable and a 3.4 so I can do the speed limit. None of it makes sense.
Personally, having a signicantly molested DD, I advise a different route.
The truth is, if you want a reliable, fuel efficient DD that is easy to take everywhere, you already have it. No, it is not cool on the internet nor does it reflect anything about your wang, but it goes places smoothly.
To me, 35's vs. 37's is a wash. Even geared, your truck is going to be slower than it is now. It will stop worse, get worse mileage and be harder on components. 37's, if you can fit them, will do everything the 35's will do easier.
I love my truck and enjoy driving it. I just hate to see someone trying to logically justify any of this. It is not logical or justifiable. I wanted 37's to fill out the wheel wells, full width axles to keep it stable and a 3.4 so I can do the speed limit. None of it makes sense.
If this is a DD, which mine is as well, you'll see about 90% on road time. I wheel alot, and my truck sees about 90% on road time.
Consider this. You said you've got 31's right now. I'm betting those run in the 100-130 dollar range. 37's, you are looking AT A MINIMUM, 100 dollars more per tire. Those tires will run down as fast as the 31's, despite the larger circumference. Just the way it works out.
Flgytenstein is running a 3.4 with 5.29's. That engine is putting out between 80 and 100 more HP than you're 22r is now, and a 22re will be only slightly better. Upgrading the cam, and all that other stuff seems like a lot for barely any gain.
Consider that your truck is going to be a dog in traffic, and will run pretty well on the flats, and be a 35mph dog on steep hills. Couple that with worse mileage, and at least $400 more per tire change, rougher on road ride, and what i see is a ton of money to run a tire that is barely better.
All that being said, that is what we all think. If you truly want to spend the cash, and do this, then do it. It's your truck, and you should be proud of it. If not doing these things will make you wish you had for years, then its worth doing it.
I think the point we are trying to make most of all is NOT to discourage you from modifying your truck and running 37's, its rather to forget about it being an economical and decent DD. Can you DD the truck with what you propose? sure you can, but it will in no way be econmical or easy. This entire sport is neither reasonable, nor responsible. Take a look on ebay and here. There are people trying to sell trucks for thousands less than what they put into them, and it can't sell becasue no one wants a modified vehicle. Too much risk. We put on modifications that cause the trucks we have to break more often, require more work, time and money, and potentially make the vehicle unsafe at highway speeds. Building a rig is like throwing money into the blender. You'll never, ever see a return on your investment. Thats fine by me, i love what i do, and love my truck. I just understand the reality of the situation.
01-04-2007, 10:17 AM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Totally agree with ya AxleIke =)
I've put 3x as much money into this truck as I paid for it. It's hard to see where the money went to. I mean, 1200+ just in a rear axle. It's like, invisible, but I know how tough it is! =)
Yea, its a hobby and a passion here, not an investment or anything like that. My truck is a PITA DD as it is now, but thats because of its bad and bent habits. It rides rough (torsion bars up), steering worn, bent frame, saggy rear leafs, out of alignment and worn clutch. LOL but damnit I love it and every mod will make it better! .. not the other way around here =)
I've put 3x as much money into this truck as I paid for it. It's hard to see where the money went to. I mean, 1200+ just in a rear axle. It's like, invisible, but I know how tough it is! =)
Yea, its a hobby and a passion here, not an investment or anything like that. My truck is a PITA DD as it is now, but thats because of its bad and bent habits. It rides rough (torsion bars up), steering worn, bent frame, saggy rear leafs, out of alignment and worn clutch. LOL but damnit I love it and every mod will make it better! .. not the other way around here =)
01-04-2007, 03:39 PM
#19
Registered User
My DD runs 32x11.5s with no lift and does fine on the roads, and I don't think it looks wimpy ( http://linuxjunkies.com/~fork/trucks/12072%20007.jpg how about that for flex!!! lol). I've seen bone stock toyotas go so far that even a stock toyota isn't wimpy in my mind anymore. In fact mine is a little wimpier now with the torsion bar lift and no overload leaf in the rear + add-a-leaf. But oh well, it's the DD. I don't think big tires should be run on the roads much because of the insane cost issue but to each his own. I always wonder what motivates people to spend large amounts of money for offroad-only truck mods when they only drive them on the road. Out here it's really common to see giant toyota IFS lifts with giant, wide tires and not a spec of dust on them. I've had the chance to talk with a few of them and the guys didn't know what a locked differential was.. and on the back of his truck he had a sticker for his 'club' I guess, called "Tuff Toyz". I asked him if he ever goes wheeling or ever wants to, and he gave me a definite NO. Coincidentally he was about 5'5" (I have nothing against short people). So anyway, to each his own. It's not my money being wasted.
However I can't say it isn't fun to drive around town in my 4runner. I think it's just for the laugh factor though. The responses I get make it 100% worth it too. Anywhere from "what the ˟˟˟˟˟˟ is that" to "LETS GO WHEELING!" and the best part is people won't tailgate it!! lol
http://linuxjunkies.com/~fork/4runner-small.JPG
That was what it looked like when I bought it
http://linuxjunkies.com/~fork/trucks/1213%20004.jpg
and that's what it looks like now, several mud pits and beaches later. notice no front shaft
However I can't say it isn't fun to drive around town in my 4runner. I think it's just for the laugh factor though. The responses I get make it 100% worth it too. Anywhere from "what the ˟˟˟˟˟˟ is that" to "LETS GO WHEELING!" and the best part is people won't tailgate it!! lol
http://linuxjunkies.com/~fork/4runner-small.JPG
That was what it looked like when I bought it
http://linuxjunkies.com/~fork/trucks/1213%20004.jpg
and that's what it looks like now, several mud pits and beaches later. notice no front shaft
01-04-2007, 04:08 PM
#20
DD'd mine for 18 months+ on 35s and 37s w/ a completely rebuild 22RE, 5 spd, 4.88 gears and it did just fine...it would go as fast as you dare go on the interstate. Now it is a trailer queen and I dd an F350 
