#3 cylinder not firing after putting everything back together
10-19-2018, 01:55 PM
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#3 cylinder not firing after putting everything back together
92 22RE: I just finished replacing head gasket, timing chain, valve seals (head was sent to a shop for this to be done), spark plugs/cap/wires/rotor, injectors just rebuilt by witchhunter. The reason I took head off initially was a bad valve seal on #1 cylinder. Started it for first time today and idled high until the normal drop after a minute or so, but then got a constant surge from 1500-2000 RPM every second or so. Shut down, restarted and engine ran perfect. Figured had to be a vacuum problem somewhere but triple checked every hose and all looks good. Ran great for an hour or so driving around town. Ran like new and idle was perfect.Then starting it again cold to try to figure out surge problem and had same surge until I restarted it again. Then idle dropped and ran rough. Pulled spark plug wire off 1, 2 & 4 and engine almost dies. Pulled wire for #3 and no change in the idle, so I know problem is #3 cylinder. Hear spark jumping to the plug so I say I have a fuel or valve problem. Pulling injector wiring plug on #3 and makes no change in idle. Spark plug and has no gas or gas smell on it. I am thinking maybe injector or wiring/plug to that injector but odd that it was running perfect for an hour or so (after that surge problem). Why didn't it do this as soon as I ran the truck for the first time? Thanks.
Last edited by Paul22RE; 10-19-2018 at 02:55 PM.
10-19-2018, 03:35 PM
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Most likely cause of an injector problem is "stuff" (dirt, fibers, ...) in the injector. The only way I know to get it INTO the injector is to get it into the fuel stream so that it gets swept into the injector. Having the injector sit on bench (for instance) might get dirt "near" the inlet of the injector, but it still takes the fuel flow to sweep it to where it will do some harm.
You've done a good job with diagnostics. Before I pulled the injector, I'd put a stethoscope (https://www.harborfreight.com/mechan...ope-63691.html, or a wooden dowel should work) on the injector as it's running. You should be able to hear a click as it opens. If no click, you might be able to do a resistance check (http://web.archive.org/web/201311071...31injector.pdf) on the injector without removing it.
You've done a good job with diagnostics. Before I pulled the injector, I'd put a stethoscope (https://www.harborfreight.com/mechan...ope-63691.html, or a wooden dowel should work) on the injector as it's running. You should be able to hear a click as it opens. If no click, you might be able to do a resistance check (http://web.archive.org/web/201311071...31injector.pdf) on the injector without removing it.
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Paul22RE (10-19-2018)
10-20-2018, 05:17 AM
#3
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Is there a way to test the harness wiring by putting a meter on the injector plug?
Last edited by Paul22RE; 10-20-2018 at 05:18 AM.
10-20-2018, 05:48 AM
#4
That idle surging probably came from the idle air control valve being low on coolant/air pocket. Same thing happens to my 92 22RE after coolant has been drained for a repair, and then filled back up with coolant.
Last edited by snippits; 10-20-2018 at 06:28 AM.
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Paul22RE (10-20-2018)
10-20-2018, 06:28 AM
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One wire (probably B-R) is 12v with key-on, the other wire (could be W or W-R; I don't have the EWD for the 22re) is grounded by the ECU to open the injector. The injector pulse is too narrow to pick up with a meter, but you can probably see it with an LED "test light" (an ordinary LED with 1000 ohm resistor in series). Remember that LEDs are polarized.
10-20-2018, 07:04 AM
#6
Not absolutely positive if any of the Noid kits work with the Denso injector harness connectors because I don't own a set, but if they do that's what I would use to check the wiring.
Pretty sure the Noid light for a Hyundai injector will work because the Denso connectors fit right on a Hyundai injector. I have four hole Hyundai injectors installed on my 92 22RE for over a year now. I am thinking it's one of the Bosch test lights in the Noid kits that will work on the factory Denso injector connector.
The OEMTOOLS 27161 8 piece test light kit can be bought locally around here. Autozone has it in stock at my store for $25. Amazon has it for $14.99.
https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ter/948078_0_0
Pretty sure the Noid light for a Hyundai injector will work because the Denso connectors fit right on a Hyundai injector. I have four hole Hyundai injectors installed on my 92 22RE for over a year now. I am thinking it's one of the Bosch test lights in the Noid kits that will work on the factory Denso injector connector.
The OEMTOOLS 27161 8 piece test light kit can be bought locally around here. Autozone has it in stock at my store for $25. Amazon has it for $14.99.
https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ter/948078_0_0
Last edited by snippits; 10-20-2018 at 07:27 AM.
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Paul22RE (10-20-2018)
10-20-2018, 02:23 PM
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Ok, just used a wooden dowel as a stethoscope (thanks @scope103...no pun intended) and no ticking in injector #3. Other 3 are ticking. #3 B-R wire has 12V with key on. Resistance on #3 injector is 5.5ohms. Working range says 13.4-14.2ohms. #4 & #2 injector read 13.9ohms. So it appears I have a bad injector. Wonder why it worked fine for first hour or so (all 4 injectors were just rebuilt/tested by witchhunter). I assume I have to pull intake off again to get fuel rail off?
Hopefully you are right @snippits & surge was just caused by having no coolant in IAC, but wouldn't that always happen when coolant is changed or when TB is taken off?
Hopefully you are right @snippits & surge was just caused by having no coolant in IAC, but wouldn't that always happen when coolant is changed or when TB is taken off?
Last edited by Paul22RE; 10-20-2018 at 02:33 PM.
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10-20-2018, 03:19 PM
#8
No it does not happen each and every time on mine. It did not surge this last round when I changed the IACV, and then did a new coolant flush and fill. When it has done it in the past, I just shut the engine off, and then crank it right back up, and the surge stops.
Yes got to take off the upper plenum again and the fuel rail. Might as well get some new crush washers too because you will need them.
Yes got to take off the upper plenum again and the fuel rail. Might as well get some new crush washers too because you will need them.
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Paul22RE (10-20-2018)
10-20-2018, 05:02 PM
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All a matter of doing the easy stuff before you get to the hard stuff (removing the intake).
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Paul22RE (10-20-2018)
10-20-2018, 06:45 PM
#10
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I use a led light that I got in a pack of 3 years ago. make sure the light's hot goes to the constant 12v side. then check for the injector grounding to pulse. if the light blinks, your injector is D.E.D. dead.
if it does not blink, you have a bad connection somewhere. I have a couple 89 and newer 22re 5 speed computers laying around.
if it does not blink, you have a bad connection somewhere. I have a couple 89 and newer 22re 5 speed computers laying around.
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Paul22RE (10-21-2018)
10-21-2018, 10:24 AM
#11
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Used an LED w/1K resistor. fast-flashing on #3 and same as #4 so looks like a bad injector. Thanks everyone!
10-21-2018, 11:36 AM
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A new Toyota injector is close to $150, but there are lots of (almost certainly rebuilt) injectors in the secondary market. https://www.ebay.com/itm/YITAMOTOR-S...L/273370714828 Let us know which one you pick out, and how it works.
Of course, you might put in a call to WitchHunter, too. If they cleaned your injectors, they probably tested them too. They might have some insight into your issue.
Last, replacing injectors isn't hard, but it isn't trivial. Feel free to take lots of pictures and show the rest of us the problems you solved.
Of course, you might put in a call to WitchHunter, too. If they cleaned your injectors, they probably tested them too. They might have some insight into your issue.
Last, replacing injectors isn't hard, but it isn't trivial. Feel free to take lots of pictures and show the rest of us the problems you solved.
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Paul22RE (10-21-2018)
10-21-2018, 01:28 PM
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A new Toyota injector is close to $150, but there are lots of (almost certainly rebuilt) injectors in the secondary market. https://www.ebay.com/itm/YITAMOTOR-S...L/273370714828 Let us know which one you pick out, and how it works.
10-21-2018, 01:43 PM
#14
You can get a new Beck/Arnley for $75 at Rock Auto plus a five percent discount if you enter the code.
BECK/ARNLEY 1580584 injector---Use 158-0894 Fuel Injector O-Ring Kit
BECK/ARNLEY 1580584 injector---Use 158-0894 Fuel Injector O-Ring Kit
Last edited by snippits; 10-21-2018 at 01:51 PM.
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Paul22RE (10-21-2018)
10-21-2018, 03:21 PM
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I also see rebuilt DENSO ones on eBay, set of 4 for $100.
10-21-2018, 03:21 PM
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Paul22RE (10-21-2018)
10-21-2018, 05:30 PM
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What, are you allergic to Chinese parts?
You're not old enough to remember this, but in America in the 1930s and early 1940s, "Made In Japan" was synonymous with "piece of junk." Today, you're happy to get your hands on a 26 year-old Made In Japan truck! What happened? The first importers to do business with Japan didn't want to risk importing a $100,000 machine tool, so they took their chance on the cheapest mass produced items they could get. Same with China, just many years later. Sure, you've probably seen some of that cheapest-mass-produced Chinese imports, but China has the manufacturing capability to produce aerospace grade parts.
You can get crappy parts made in China, and you can get them made in the USA. But you can get really high quality parts made either place. You'll be wasting a lot of angst if you skip any part that's made in China.
You're not old enough to remember this, but in America in the 1930s and early 1940s, "Made In Japan" was synonymous with "piece of junk." Today, you're happy to get your hands on a 26 year-old Made In Japan truck! What happened? The first importers to do business with Japan didn't want to risk importing a $100,000 machine tool, so they took their chance on the cheapest mass produced items they could get. Same with China, just many years later. Sure, you've probably seen some of that cheapest-mass-produced Chinese imports, but China has the manufacturing capability to produce aerospace grade parts.
You can get crappy parts made in China, and you can get them made in the USA. But you can get really high quality parts made either place. You'll be wasting a lot of angst if you skip any part that's made in China.
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Paul22RE (10-21-2018)
10-21-2018, 06:10 PM
#19
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I will not put the new injector back at #3, just in case orig failed due to a wiring issue. Rather burn out an old, rebuilt one over a new one!
10-22-2018, 12:09 AM
#20
They all fire at the same time. Just run any old wire to jump the one connector.
Use a sparkplug wire off number 4 to make sure it's not that?
