spacoli

I need to change my valve stem seals in my 22re. I have a local wrench that usally works on my cars, but is very busy. He said he will let me borrow his spring commpresser and the fitting to pressure up the cylinders so the valves don't fall.

I have adjusted the valves recently, so I have ben under the valve cover working before.
How tough of a job is it to remove the rockers and springs to get to the seals? Does the cam need removed or can I work around it?

Thanks

DudeBud

if you pull the rocker assembly you might as well pull the head because you have a very high chance of messing up the head gasket. if you put pressure or rope to it to keep the valves up, then yes it will pop the head up...

Th3duke

I second that, might as well pull the head to make sure it's done right -- but if you're takiing the head off you might want to take advantage of the situation and send the whole head and have it done for you, and have them add some over sized valves (you could throw in a cam too.) EngineBuilder has some nice valves for this engine.

Just my 0.02 from my plugged nickel.

spacoli

This was a used engine that I just dropped in. Before I dropped it in, I had all new gaskets (including the head gasket) installed, so there would be a bunch of oil leaks and problems down the road. If I would have know better I would have had them changed then.

The engine has very good power, but it smokes when you start it, but no smoke at all once the oil from the leaky seals burns off. The seals are leaking bad enough that I have been though almost 1 1/2 qt of oil in 1000 miles. The seals must be really dried out and cracked.

I really didn't want to get into removing the head and put more money into machine work if the engine seems strong.

Thanks for the replies.

Th3duke

Have you tried a different kind of oil? In my 22RE I used the half a litre Lucas Oil Stabilizer and good Valvoline 10W-30. On another note, if you use the high mileage oil for the next few oil changes that may help you seals. I would give it that a try. The seal job isn't hard, BUT if you add pressure to the cylinder to keep the valve up when doing the job, you may have problems with you headgasket, that's why I would recommend you take the head off if you're going to do it.

G/L

spacoli

I will give that a try. I'm planning on changing the oil soon since I had some new timing set,oil pump andwater pump from engnbldr.com installed.

I currently have a quart of Lucas in there now. With only 1000 miles on since I dropped the engine in. When I first stared the engine the smoke was bad. I drained a quart of oil and put Lucas in. I'm not sure if it was the Lucas or not , but shortly after that, it stoped smoking and only smoked upon start up.

If the engine was sitting for a while at the junk yard, is it safe to say it might take a little bit to "condition" the seals if they were dried out a little? I don't know this stuff that's why I'm asking. Is there anything other treatment other than Lucas I put in to help the seals soften up.

If I decide to change the seals by air pressure, is there a minimum pressure I can use to keep the valve up?

Thanks

Th3duke

Yes, that's why I mentioned the high mileage oil, it all depends what company you prefer, as they all pretty well do the same thing ( I use Castrol high mileage). Basically these oils have a burnoff-inhibitor which helps prevent the oil from burning off if it gets past an engine seal into the combustion chamber. Additionally, they also contain a seal conditioner that expands the seals... so that might work for ya.

As for the pressure; I haven't done it on a 22RE with the spark plug adapter and pressure. However, when I did it on my dodge I used 100 PSI to keep the valve up -- that worked fine -- and I personnally wouldn't go any lower.

Bear80

Don't even think about trying to leave that head gasket in place and just do valves, you're just asking for trouble. If the oil use bothers you, pull the head and have a whole head job done with a new head gasket, otherwise leave it alone.

spacoli

Thanks for all the advice. I will not fix the seals without pulling the head. I will try some different oil/treatment and see what happens within the next couple oil changes. As much oil as I have used (almost 2 qt.) in the first 1000 miles, I'm guessing the seals have to be pretty bad and any type of oil or treatment probably won't help.
I'm pretty sure that's were the smoke is coming from since it only smoke for the first 30 seconds upon start up. After that I never see any smoke at all.
But then again, I don't know that much about engines.

spacoli

I got to do a pressure test on each cylinder today. The lowest pressure was around 118 psi and all the rest were 120+ no more than 125.

Are these pressures ok, or is that were my oil is going?

DudeBud

i was getting 190 in each hole with mine. do a leak down test.

spacoli

I'm not even sure I did the test right. It was a snap-on tester and there was various hose fittings for different size spark plugs. I found the right size, but it did not have the valve core in it. So what I did was just watched the gauge jump up and down as the engine was turned over.

Should I have installed a valve core from one of the others? what is the correct procedure for testing?

DudeBud

yes you need the valve core in it. crank it until the needle stops moving thats about 4-6 cranks

spacoli

Thanks Dude, I will recheck it tommorrow. I was hoping I did it wrong because pressure was kind or low from what I have been reading. Atleast all four were consistant, so that's good.

spacoli

Well, I did another compression test with the info I received from the forums.

I warmed the engine up, pulled all the plugs, pulled the EFI fuse and held the throttle open.

Here are the numbers with number of revolutions for each. I choose to do different revolutions, because it seems like everyone had a different number of revolutions that they suggested. So this would give everyone a comparision
to what they usally do.

First is 4 revolutions, next is 6, next is 8 and the max (until needle stopped moving around 10 revolutions)

#1 - 170,188,205,210
#2 - 170,185,200,210
#3 - 170,188,200,210
#4 - 165,180,195,200

The results were pretty consistant other that #4, was a little lower. I'm sure there is a margin for error with any test.

DudeBud

i crank it until the needle stops moving but from what you got looks good. a leak down test would tell more.

drew303

leak down test?

Can you elaborate?

Also, if you pull the spark plugs as you did, if oils leaking into any of the pistons it usually shows up on the plug(s).

I know i have oil leaking into piston #4 on our 2wd '87 yota, it burns a bit of oil at startup and thats it, but probably continually burns oil but not enough to "see" in the exhaust. But anyhow, plug #4 looks "wet" which is indication of oil.

spacoli

I didn't really take notice of wetness on the plugs, they all looked about the same.

Yes I would like to know more on the leak down test. I would think that has to do with how long the cylinder will hold a certain pressure and if there is lost pressure where is it going.

DudeBud

this should help you guys http://www.geocities.com/dsmgrrrl/FAQs/leakdown.htm

i still think you are getting the oil past your valve seals. i wouldn't worry about it much. just be happy your motor is pushing around 210 psi a hole

spacoli

I am happy with the way the truck is running now, seams like a realy strong engine. I had a bad intermitant hestitation or miss in it and I disconected the tps on a suggestion from someone. Since then it has run great.
Fuel milage has been around 16-18 average running to the highest 24 on a highway trip. I have not checked the mpg since disconecting the tps, judging from the fuel gauge it still seems about the same.

Is it possible to lose that much oil through the valve seals?
I don't know, that's why I'm asking. What causes the seals to go bad?
I have used (almost 2 qt.) in the first 1000 miles of running the truck.