scubarunner

I know I am a newb here, but not a newb to yotas. I am curently working on my red 88 4Runner and am stumped by a timing issue. I rebuilt the motor and reassembled but I couldn't get it in time. It was running fine, but the mark was about 20* ATDC and I couldn't bring it in w/o hogging out the set bolt window on the dizzy. I wanted to avoid this so I did some research and concluded that my chain was a tooth off. Well I tore it down and it wasn't, so I went and bought a new timing set from EB and installed it. Today I partially reassembled and got to the point where I could see that I was going to have the same issue. So now I am stumped.

I know:
1) The marks on the timing sprockets are aligned with the bright links
2) The motor is at TDC on #1

I don't know:
1) Why the keyway for the crank is at 12:30 when the cam is at 12:00
2) If the timing mark on the crank pulley has spun. ( I read that this is possible, but that is news to me.)

Please take a look and give me some feedback if you can. TIA
TIming Mark ATDC

Cam Sprocket at 12:00

Timing Mark and Keyway on the Crank Pulley

Crank Keyway at 12:30

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

The problem with aftermarket timing sets, is that the matchmark is often time off. What you need to match up is the center eccentric that the dizzy drive gear uses to stay in place. (Make sense?) If that is at 12, and the crank is at 12, you are good. From the looks of your pics, you are in time. Just set the crank to 0 and see where that guide hole is pointing.

make sure your dizzy is set correctly also, that may have been why your timing was so far off in the first place.

myyota

If im looking at things right, it looks like your harmonic balancer is bad, over time the balancer can spin out of position because the rubber works loose that holds it together. my cousin had this problem on his 86 4Runner, everything was right but the balancer was about 12 degrees off, once he replaced the balancer was replaced everything lined up as it should.

abecedarian

nothing in your post demonstrates that the crankshaft or cam is 'off'.
you show pictures of the cam sprocket and the chain, but nothing of the crank sprocket and chain.

TOYOTA 1

looks like the mark on the timing gear is way off "not inline" with the dowel on the cam.

am i wrong???

abecedarian

the cam gear and timing chain look 'spot on'....
but without seeing the crank gear and chain, it's hard to tell.

TOYOTA 1

yes the cam and chain are spot with one another and @ high noon. but the cam is not, its advanced.. see the dowel on the cam?? "witch is supposed to be @ high noon." and its not? and why isnt the timing gear mark in-line with the cam dowel??

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

The timing mark on the cam gear is supposed to be inline with the cam dowel. Thats what I said in my post. Like I said, aftermarket parts tend to be "pretty good" but not quite perfect.

TOYOTA 1

whoops, i must have skipped over your post there DC...


thats just poor craftsmen ship there..

DJ ROCK products are crap imo..

scubarunner

I Plan to run to the parts store today and compare mine to a new one.

As far as the crank timing gear goes... it is on too. I triple checked that as this is the second time I have been in here since I assembled the motor.

The cam Dowel is a bit advanced, but so is the crank if you look at it in person. The timing mark on the crank pulley is inline with the keyway, therefore the pully shows it advanced (or actually retartded if I have that straight) as well.

TOYOTA 1

it doesn't matter where the marks are on that cheesy timing set or the chain for that matter....

what matters is what DC said "match up is the center eccentric"

witch means put the key way on the crank @noon, and the cam dowel @ noon also..

forget those marks on the timing set that a wrong to begin with..

that way when your 20 degrees off, you know its your distributer thats off. and not the cam to crank timing...

scubarunner

Well it aint the harmonic balancer that has slipped. the timing mark on a new one lines up with the keyway. the same as mine does.

I could understand the timing set being an issue if this was the first set that had the problem. But this is the same quandary I was in with the timing set that was on the motor. 2 sets with the same issue... that is a bit of a stretch. The old set was not a Rock set.

abecedarian

so what's the problem with setting the ignition timing again?
did you jumper the TE1 and E1 terminals in the diagnsotic connector?
did the idle speed drop?

TOYOTA 1

i think his problem is he is stabbing the dizzy in where the cam is at now, insted of where its supposed to be. and he is loosing timing adjustment on his dizzy becouse of that. thats why he said he needed to file the dizzy adjustment slot to get that 20 degrees back that he is loosing becouse of where his cam is when he stabs the dizzy.

abecedarian

If you look closely at the pics, you'll see the dowel looks to be about 4degrees over center and the timing mark on the balancer looks to be about 8. If he rotated the crank around twice 'til the timing mark was at 0, the dowel on the cam is going to be at 12:00, which is where it should be.
The dimple is offset from the cam dowel because when the chain slack is taken up by the tensioner it will rotate backwards. I just looked at the sprocket on my 88 and the dimple is offset, as was the chain set I put on my 91 last year (the sprocket is on the ground now since I pulled the head and subsequently replaced the engine a few weeks ago).

I asked about jumpering the diagnostic connector because if that's not done the timing will be around 20 btdc.

TOYOTA 1

true, but if he stabs the dizzy without doing that first then he is loosing adjustment on the dizzy right?

abecedarian

yep. crank should be at 0, distributor rotor straight up. insert dizzy, rotor will rotate anticlockwise to about 10 oclock, and that should be #1 cylinder. if the distributor is centered in the adjustment slider, timing should be about 0.

TOYOTA 1

thats what i was trying to say lol, sorry for being so confusing..

so its either that, or hes not crossing the te1 with e1 like you said!

abecedarian

it's all good. 'specially if it works.

TOYOTA 1

for sure lol....