22RE Timing Issues!
#1
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22RE Timing Issues!
Guys,
I got my 89 4runner back and running from a blown headgasket and now it has no power. Throttle response is almost zero.
I know 100% that the timing chain, cam gear, and distributor were installed correctly. I tuned the timing by idel first and idels OK but timing is at 20 BTDC!! I can adjust it as far as 15 BTDC with the adjustment room I have on the distributor, but idels poorly. When I jump the diagnostic box to do the timing(T and E1) there is no difference in the idel, the idel should drop. I also have one code coming up:
51-
IDL (tps) CONTACTS OFF, NEUTRAL START SWITCH OFF, A/C SWITCH "ON" SIGNAL TO ECU
--A/C SWITCH/CIRCUIT
--A/C AMPLIFIER
--TPS/CIRCUIT
--NEUTRAL START SWITCH/CIRCUIT
--ECU
I think my problem is the TPS. Anyone experience something similar? I'm going to go bench test the TPS now. Any advice would be great.
Thanks
Aaron
*NOTE- before I reset the ECU (Removed neg terminal) I was also getting code 42-
VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT--NO SPD. SIGNAL FOR SEVERLA SECONDS WHILE VEHICLE IS OPERATED UNDER HEAVY LOAD (TPS/MAP/AIR FLOW INPUTS)
--SPEED SENSOR/CIRCUIT
--ECU
I got my 89 4runner back and running from a blown headgasket and now it has no power. Throttle response is almost zero.
I know 100% that the timing chain, cam gear, and distributor were installed correctly. I tuned the timing by idel first and idels OK but timing is at 20 BTDC!! I can adjust it as far as 15 BTDC with the adjustment room I have on the distributor, but idels poorly. When I jump the diagnostic box to do the timing(T and E1) there is no difference in the idel, the idel should drop. I also have one code coming up:
51-
IDL (tps) CONTACTS OFF, NEUTRAL START SWITCH OFF, A/C SWITCH "ON" SIGNAL TO ECU
--A/C SWITCH/CIRCUIT
--A/C AMPLIFIER
--TPS/CIRCUIT
--NEUTRAL START SWITCH/CIRCUIT
--ECU
I think my problem is the TPS. Anyone experience something similar? I'm going to go bench test the TPS now. Any advice would be great.
Thanks
Aaron
*NOTE- before I reset the ECU (Removed neg terminal) I was also getting code 42-
VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT--NO SPD. SIGNAL FOR SEVERLA SECONDS WHILE VEHICLE IS OPERATED UNDER HEAVY LOAD (TPS/MAP/AIR FLOW INPUTS)
--SPEED SENSOR/CIRCUIT
--ECU
Last edited by SupraSport; 06-06-2006 at 01:49 PM.
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VTA-E2 reads 930 Ohms at closed Checks out OK
VTA-E2 reads 4.7 KOhms at WOT Checks out ok
Idl-E2 Is open at all throttle positions.... hmmm not OK?
Diagnosis:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml
VTA-E2 reads 4.7 KOhms at WOT Checks out ok
Idl-E2 Is open at all throttle positions.... hmmm not OK?
Diagnosis:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml
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TPS operation
Originally Posted by SupraSport
VTA-E2 reads 930 Ohms at closed Checks out OK
VTA-E2 reads 4.7 KOhms at WOT Checks out ok
Idl-E2 Is open at all throttle positions.... hmmm not OK?
Diagnosis:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml
VTA-E2 reads 4.7 KOhms at WOT Checks out ok
Idl-E2 Is open at all throttle positions.... hmmm not OK?
Diagnosis:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml
Mine was misadjusted such that on the engine, the ECU only saw the open condition. That caused the engine to idle at 500rpm as the ECU "thought" the throttle was open and therefore the rpm's needed to be lowered Adjusting it correctly fixed the problem, allowing a smooth idle at 800rpm.
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I think I'll get a TPS from the dealer tommorow. Hopefully it will fix the problem.
Would a bad tps explain the timing being at 20-25 BTDC?
Would a bad tps explain the timing being at 20-25 BTDC?
#7
yes because its not getting a correct reading off the idle conntacts. witch helps to set your base timing. mine was also the 3.0 but the tps still works the same
Last edited by mr toytech; 06-06-2006 at 04:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by SupraSport
I think I'll get a TPS from the dealer tommorow. Hopefully it will fix the problem.
Would a bad tps explain the timing being at 20-25 BTDC?
Would a bad tps explain the timing being at 20-25 BTDC?
Btw, I bought a used TPS on Ebay for $18 (shipped) which I used to understand how the thing worked. Also got the connector with 1" wire on it which makes a neat test connector. On the 3.0 it is a bit of a pain to get at the TPS. The TPS I got turned out to be good, as was the one on the truck. Just misadjusted. But I'll keep the one I bought for backup.
Good luck.
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Guys, still need your help.
So I broke the bank and got the OEM TPS from toyota. First let me say that they have improved the design from the original and the new design looks much more durable.
I installed the TPS correctly thanks to 4crawler.com
The timing can now be set properly
I have no codes, CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS OFF
Truck idels well but has no power still!!! Whats the next step????? What should I look into next. Any suggestions would be greatly appriciated!!
Thanks
Aaron
So I broke the bank and got the OEM TPS from toyota. First let me say that they have improved the design from the original and the new design looks much more durable.
I installed the TPS correctly thanks to 4crawler.com
The timing can now be set properly
I have no codes, CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS OFF
Truck idels well but has no power still!!! Whats the next step????? What should I look into next. Any suggestions would be greatly appriciated!!
Thanks
Aaron
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Originally Posted by SupraSport
Guys, still need your help.
So I broke the bank and got the OEM TPS from toyota. First let me say that they have improved the design from the original and the new design looks much more durable.
I installed the TPS correctly thanks to 4crawler.com
The timing can now be set properly
I have no codes, CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS OFF
So I broke the bank and got the OEM TPS from toyota. First let me say that they have improved the design from the original and the new design looks much more durable.
I installed the TPS correctly thanks to 4crawler.com
The timing can now be set properly
I have no codes, CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS OFF
Now is a good time to pass the emissions test if needed. If not, I'd try bumping the timing to a scosh more advanced and see how much difference in power you get. Others may have a different idea, just passing on what I'd try. My V6 was dead at 8 degrees, but with good power at 12. Point is 4 degress can make a very big difference.
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You have to disconnect something to check the timing; I don't remember if it is the TPS or to wire across two terminals in the interface pinout...anyone know for sure? otherwise, you get the high BTDC reading because the ECU is adjusting it.
#12
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Originally Posted by TNRabbit
You have to disconnect something to check the timing; I don't remember if it is the TPS or to wire across two terminals in the interface pinout...anyone know for sure? otherwise, you get the high BTDC reading because the ECU is adjusting it.
Originally Posted by SupraSport
Guys,
When I jump the diagnostic box to do the timing(T and E1) there is no difference in the idel, the idel should drop.
When I jump the diagnostic box to do the timing(T and E1) there is no difference in the idel, the idel should drop.
To the OP:
Sounds like a really strange problem... Did you do a compression check?
Good plugs? Wires? All the basics covered?
You say it has no power, when it falls flat on its face does it do it smoothly or with a rough stutter?
Just trying to brainstorm a little...
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Originally Posted by ovrrdrive
To the OP:
Sounds like a really strange problem... Did you do a compression check?
Good plugs? Wires? All the basics covered?
You say it has no power, when it falls flat on its face does it do it smoothly or with a rough stutter?
Just trying to brainstorm a little...
Sounds like a really strange problem... Did you do a compression check?
Good plugs? Wires? All the basics covered?
You say it has no power, when it falls flat on its face does it do it smoothly or with a rough stutter?
Just trying to brainstorm a little...
It idels well, and stays smooth as I accellerate SLLLOOOOWWWLLLYYY. But if I hit the gas hard there is ALOT of valve chatter. I thought I might be bad gas since it has been sitting for a while but after fill up it's still having problems. It is also running hotter then usual. When coming to a stop it will bog down due to hitting the brakes (booster vacume pull).
I think I might inspect all of my vacume lines just to make sure I installed the rats nest properly
I had the valve seats redone and the intake/exhaust ported while I had the head off. I'm going to be pissed if the ˟˟˟˟ up the valve seats
Thanks for the help guys, we'll get this thing figured out.
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Originally Posted by SupraSport
But if I hit the gas hard there is ALOT of valve chatter. I thought I might be bad gas since it has been sitting for a while but after fill up it's still having problems. It is also running hotter then usual. When coming to a stop it will bog down due to hitting the brakes (booster vacume pull).
I think I might inspect all of my vacume lines just to make sure I installed the rats nest properly
I think I might inspect all of my vacume lines just to make sure I installed the rats nest properly
Vacuum lines sound like a good idea to check also....
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Originally Posted by TNRabbit
I re-read the post; was the timing 25 degrees BTDC with the pins bridged? I thought it was supposed to be 10-12 BTDC...? Did I misunderstand something?
But it still has poop for power, thus my problem.
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I just got done fixing this same problem on my 94 pickup. The idle was ok, but I could get out and run faster than it could get up and go. It was ALL due to my TPS. If the TPS isn't set correctly, then it is impossible to set the timing correctly.
When I finally got my TPS adjusted, my timing was so far off I couldn't even see what it was reading. Re-adjusted the timing and the thing runs like never before. It's wonderful!
The key for me in adjusting the TPS was the trick on page 5 of theThrottle Body section of the Factory Service Manual If you look at (4)(b)-(d), you'll see how to correctly set the TPS. If you get (4)(b) right, then all the other tests are just for verification.
Hope this helps. Of course, I did not have valve chatter so that might be something else.
When I finally got my TPS adjusted, my timing was so far off I couldn't even see what it was reading. Re-adjusted the timing and the thing runs like never before. It's wonderful!
The key for me in adjusting the TPS was the trick on page 5 of theThrottle Body section of the Factory Service Manual If you look at (4)(b)-(d), you'll see how to correctly set the TPS. If you get (4)(b) right, then all the other tests are just for verification.
Hope this helps. Of course, I did not have valve chatter so that might be something else.
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SS: Did you figure it out yet? I'd guess the valve chatter you heard is the timing set so far in advance that you're getting pre-detonation. Did it go away when you got the timing set?
Also, another thing that can cause really poor power is the knock sensor (or wires to it); if it is bad or not reading, the ECU goes to maximum spark retard, which would accounf for the crappy power.
UGA: Thanks for the info & link! I've had this problem and your post helped a lot.
Also, another thing that can cause really poor power is the knock sensor (or wires to it); if it is bad or not reading, the ECU goes to maximum spark retard, which would accounf for the crappy power.
UGA: Thanks for the info & link! I've had this problem and your post helped a lot.
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Originally Posted by SupraSport
So I broke the bank and got the OEM TPS from toyota. First let me say that they have improved the design from the original and the new design looks much more durable.