View Poll Results: 22RE Rebuild Options
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22RE Rebuild Options
08-19-2006, 10:43 PM
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22RE Rebuild Options
So, as some of you know, I blew a HG about 6 weeks prior to leaving for Afghanistan. So the truck is on jackstands in the garge. When I get home I need to address this issue, as its my DD. I have about 6 months or so to decide on the propper course of action.. .but thought I would elicit some help from you guys...
What I know so far..
I am going to rebuild it. Its only a HG but it has 160K on it and I'm not going to pull the head and not have it gone thru, and I am not going to put a new head on a 160K old bottomend....
I toyed with the idea of an engine swap... but not going to do that for several reasons. At this point if I swapped it I would only go diesel... I used to want a 3.4, in fact had one in my garage for about a year and nixed the idea of the swap.. as far as diesel engines go a 2L-THE is what I would do.. but not $$ feasible.. espically since I have a new header/exhaust/flywheel/clutch with only 1K on them for my 22RE...
The only swap now that seams feasible is a 22-RET, but I really like my mileage and a turbo wont help that, nor will it give me any bottom end.. so not really considering it...
What I want from the enigine after the rebuild..
I run 35's and around town right now I can get 18-21mpg... hwy is 12-16. I dont want to sacrifice mileage.. I want to maintain the reliability of the 22RE, antoher reason I dont want an engine swap... I wouldnt mind a little more power, but no so much the mpg is affected at cruise... I spoke with an engine guy in Boise, he drives an 88 with a 22RE himself who suggested a mild RV cam and .020 over pistons. He says the stock computer is 100% compatible and I will probally see an increase in mpg with the 35's as the cam is more efficant and making power down low thus making those 35's roll easier.... what do you guys think.. I had a TRD stage II cam in my 95 and I dont think it did anything but drop my mileage.... I also dont want a stand alone ECU, I want my stock ECU to control everything as if it were stock... i.e. I dont want more than the stock ECU can handle... Also, I will be paying for a long block. I dont want to do this myself. I know I could, but I prefer the long block with the warrenty and an experianced build..
I already have a LC header, hi-flow cat, flowmaster.. Intake is a true flow but otherwise stock...
So here is what I am looking at, and what you see in the poll...
1. Bone stock rebuild
2. Mild RV cam
3. Mild RV cam, 0.020 over pistons
4. Minor head work + #2
5. Something else, please explain....
Obviously if stock pistons cant be used I will be using 0.020 over without option... but I dont think there is enough wear to HAVE to bore it over..
What I know so far..
I am going to rebuild it. Its only a HG but it has 160K on it and I'm not going to pull the head and not have it gone thru, and I am not going to put a new head on a 160K old bottomend....
I toyed with the idea of an engine swap... but not going to do that for several reasons. At this point if I swapped it I would only go diesel... I used to want a 3.4, in fact had one in my garage for about a year and nixed the idea of the swap.. as far as diesel engines go a 2L-THE is what I would do.. but not $$ feasible.. espically since I have a new header/exhaust/flywheel/clutch with only 1K on them for my 22RE...
The only swap now that seams feasible is a 22-RET, but I really like my mileage and a turbo wont help that, nor will it give me any bottom end.. so not really considering it...
What I want from the enigine after the rebuild..
I run 35's and around town right now I can get 18-21mpg... hwy is 12-16. I dont want to sacrifice mileage.. I want to maintain the reliability of the 22RE, antoher reason I dont want an engine swap... I wouldnt mind a little more power, but no so much the mpg is affected at cruise... I spoke with an engine guy in Boise, he drives an 88 with a 22RE himself who suggested a mild RV cam and .020 over pistons. He says the stock computer is 100% compatible and I will probally see an increase in mpg with the 35's as the cam is more efficant and making power down low thus making those 35's roll easier.... what do you guys think.. I had a TRD stage II cam in my 95 and I dont think it did anything but drop my mileage.... I also dont want a stand alone ECU, I want my stock ECU to control everything as if it were stock... i.e. I dont want more than the stock ECU can handle... Also, I will be paying for a long block. I dont want to do this myself. I know I could, but I prefer the long block with the warrenty and an experianced build..
I already have a LC header, hi-flow cat, flowmaster.. Intake is a true flow but otherwise stock...
So here is what I am looking at, and what you see in the poll...
1. Bone stock rebuild
2. Mild RV cam
3. Mild RV cam, 0.020 over pistons
4. Minor head work + #2
5. Something else, please explain....
Obviously if stock pistons cant be used I will be using 0.020 over without option... but I dont think there is enough wear to HAVE to bore it over..
Last edited by AH64ID; 08-19-2006 at 10:47 PM.
08-20-2006, 07:28 AM
#2
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All I did with my 22R was a cam, Downey header and exhaust system and it made a world of difference. I then later added gears which made it better. I wouldn't go too far overboard with this. Just put a cam and exhaust and port the head a little since you have it off and call it a day.
James
James
08-20-2006, 01:25 PM
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Just a note, all might not agree with me, but 160k on a 22RE is not that much for the bottom end. I have 360k on mine and the bottom end is not a problem. I also have rebuilt my old engine that had 450k on it and the bearings were pitted but still had lots of life in them. If you want to save some money just check the rings when you have the head off and replace the headgasket. You will still have another 100-150k before the bottom will ever go.
08-20-2006, 07:50 PM
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what type of Cam would you guys suggest(and why)?
I'm looking at rebuilding the top end of a 22RTE, and I'm figuring while it's apart I may as well go for a new cam.
I'm looking at rebuilding the top end of a 22RTE, and I'm figuring while it's apart I may as well go for a new cam.
08-20-2006, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Flash319
Just a note, all might not agree with me, but 160k on a 22RE is not that much for the bottom end. I have 360k on mine and the bottom end is not a problem. I also have rebuilt my old engine that had 450k on it and the bearings were pitted but still had lots of life in them. If you want to save some money just check the rings when you have the head off and replace the headgasket. You will still have another 100-150k before the bottom will ever go.
Yeah I understand that, but I am almost there with a head off, whats pulling the bottom end and having it gone thru, its more of a might as well, instead of a has to be done...
08-21-2006, 04:57 AM
#7
Originally Posted by kyle_22r
cam, port and polish(intake ports are where you want to spend your money, gets more usable power), and exhaust.
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08-21-2006, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BLKNBLU
Ditto. I think just a bit of the mildest tweaking. There is a reason these things last 300k... like maybe they were pretty well designed in the first place.
yeah, thats the reason I dont want to do anything serious... just maybe a few things to help turn the 35's, but nothing to shorten the lifespan...
08-21-2006, 04:08 PM
#9
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and another thing, boring out these engines won't really get your any more power, and will make them run hotter. just have them punched out enough to clean up the bores. my '91's engine just needed a hone, i reused the factory pistons at 190k! to be safe, i should've just had it bored .010 over but the machinist reassured me it'd be fine. it's got about 5k on it now and is running nice and smooth(other than the idle issue i've had for a long time now)
08-21-2006, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kyle_22r
and another thing, boring out these engines won't really get your any more power, and will make them run hotter. just have them punched out enough to clean up the bores. my '91's engine just needed a hone, i reused the factory pistons at 190k! to be safe, i should've just had it bored .010 over but the machinist reassured me it'd be fine. it's got about 5k on it now and is running nice and smooth(other than the idle issue i've had for a long time now)
Are .010 over pistons made? I seem to remeber only seeing .020, 0.30 and .040... but thats on engnbldr...
I had hoped it might help on power a little, but then again why would it when its EFI and the ECU isnt programmed for it... but 0.010 over would assure a better seal than honing the stock walls, maybe even a longer lasting engine..
08-22-2006, 09:32 PM
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id leave the bottom end alone for now if your ring clearances are ok. if you were to leave a little oil or a spec of dirt on the inside of a main bearing or something you could toast the whole motor. if you do decide to rebuild the botom end be very very careful and CLEAN. and measure everything carefully before reassembly. if it were me id rebuild the head with a cam and port/polish the sucker. good luck! 
08-23-2006, 12:48 PM
#12
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Id leave it alone..
I was in the same slippery slope when my HG went at 250K.
I ended up doing
-- deck the head
-- 3 angle valve job
-- all new seals and gaskets up top
-- new fuel filter (real easy with the head off)
-- spark plugs (had to take em out anways)
I painted the block with Glyphtal since the head was off.
I had the intake beaded and I painted that with nylack.
It ran another 100K to 350K.
Its been siting in a barn since then - warmed up every once in a while. Noting wrong with the truck - other things in life happened.
Ran REAL STRONG with the head job tho at 350K its getting kinda loose (doh)
I had a LC dual chain conversion kit at 200K so I left that alone - otherwise Id advise doing the TC when the head is off.
I was in the same slippery slope when my HG went at 250K.
I ended up doing
-- deck the head
-- 3 angle valve job
-- all new seals and gaskets up top
-- new fuel filter (real easy with the head off)
-- spark plugs (had to take em out anways)
I painted the block with Glyphtal since the head was off.
I had the intake beaded and I painted that with nylack.
It ran another 100K to 350K.
Its been siting in a barn since then - warmed up every once in a while. Noting wrong with the truck - other things in life happened.
Ran REAL STRONG with the head job tho at 350K its getting kinda loose (doh)
I had a LC dual chain conversion kit at 200K so I left that alone - otherwise Id advise doing the TC when the head is off.
08-23-2006, 03:18 PM
#13
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If you're a cheap ass, you can do the head (assuming the block is flat), replace the timing chain / tensioner /guides and go for another 100k on an OEM motor.
In terms of bang for the buck, I'd do the following:
1) Shave the head a minor amount (.020 comes to mind, verify with your machinist) to increase compression - you need to plane it anyway to be sure it's flat.
1) RV cam (engnbldr)
2) header
4) Engnbldr's .5mm over stainless valves, with mild port work on the intake side and bowls.
5) Exhaust system (header back)
4) K&N filter
5) 88.5 or newer Throttle body.
A dual chain isn't necessary, IMHO.. steel guides are.
complete rebuild:
You should bore the block if you need it (which you probably will) - there isn't a signficant advantage to going to an overbore.. Even at .060 over, you're talking about a few hp if that.
Turn the crank (or polish).
Do it right.
If you're in TX, I'm starting rebuild these with a cost + structure.
In terms of bang for the buck, I'd do the following:
1) Shave the head a minor amount (.020 comes to mind, verify with your machinist) to increase compression - you need to plane it anyway to be sure it's flat.
1) RV cam (engnbldr)
2) header
4) Engnbldr's .5mm over stainless valves, with mild port work on the intake side and bowls.
5) Exhaust system (header back)
4) K&N filter
5) 88.5 or newer Throttle body.
A dual chain isn't necessary, IMHO.. steel guides are.
complete rebuild:
You should bore the block if you need it (which you probably will) - there isn't a signficant advantage to going to an overbore.. Even at .060 over, you're talking about a few hp if that.
Turn the crank (or polish).
Do it right.
If you're in TX, I'm starting rebuild these with a cost + structure.
08-23-2006, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dcg9381
If you're a cheap ass, you can do the head (assuming the block is flat), replace the timing chain / tensioner /guides and go for another 100k on an OEM motor.
In terms of bang for the buck, I'd do the following:
1) Shave the head a minor amount (.020 comes to mind, verify with your machinist) to increase compression - you need to plane it anyway to be sure it's flat.
1) RV cam (engnbldr)
2) header
4) Engnbldr's .5mm over stainless valves, with mild port work on the intake side and bowls.
5) Exhaust system (header back)
4) K&N filter
5) 88.5 or newer Throttle body.
A dual chain isn't necessary, IMHO.. steel guides are.
complete rebuild:
You should bore the block if you need it (which you probably will) - there isn't a signficant advantage to going to an overbore.. Even at .060 over, you're talking about a few hp if that.
Turn the crank (or polish).
Do it right.
If you're in TX, I'm starting rebuild these with a cost + structure.
In terms of bang for the buck, I'd do the following:
1) Shave the head a minor amount (.020 comes to mind, verify with your machinist) to increase compression - you need to plane it anyway to be sure it's flat.
1) RV cam (engnbldr)
2) header
4) Engnbldr's .5mm over stainless valves, with mild port work on the intake side and bowls.
5) Exhaust system (header back)
4) K&N filter
5) 88.5 or newer Throttle body.
A dual chain isn't necessary, IMHO.. steel guides are.
complete rebuild:
You should bore the block if you need it (which you probably will) - there isn't a signficant advantage to going to an overbore.. Even at .060 over, you're talking about a few hp if that.
Turn the crank (or polish).
Do it right.
If you're in TX, I'm starting rebuild these with a cost + structure.
Well I am in lcuk, I already have the header
and a hi-flow filter, but not K&N, too much dust go by...I was looking at a slightly larger valve, and was thinking about gasketmatching the intake.. is this needed on a toyota, I usually hear about guys doing it on their chevs and fords....or is it worth it to get the LC intake runners??
I mainly want to increase efficancy, which will yield me a minor power increase in that... the mild RV cam is sounding good too..
08-23-2006, 10:32 PM
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Something else I have been thinking of....
Does anyone here have any experiance with the LCE low psi supercharger??? I am curious if it is a bolt up blower like a TRD (i.e. doesnt need any major ECU or engine mods)... I would consider a blower, mild head work, and a stock cam... although it would probally throw my mpg into the toilet... but still I am curious if anyone here has experiance with it...
Does anyone here have any experiance with the LCE low psi supercharger??? I am curious if it is a bolt up blower like a TRD (i.e. doesnt need any major ECU or engine mods)... I would consider a blower, mild head work, and a stock cam... although it would probally throw my mpg into the toilet... but still I am curious if anyone here has experiance with it...
08-24-2006, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ewong
Once ya start talking super etc... have ya consider "swap" motor options?
yeah, see my original post... bolting a super on is WAAAAYYYYY easier than even the easiest swap... and this isnt my hwy rig, its around town and trail 4cyl power is fine, just looking at ideas for a little more the stock... mostly interested if anyone has done the LCE super yet...
08-24-2006, 07:36 PM
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I recently had a timing chain go out on my truck. As it is a fairly easy fix for this, I am going with after market parts and getting it back on the road pretty quickly.
Instead of going with goo Toyota OEM parts. (Sorry Evan). I am going with parts from engbldr parts.
My intention is:
I thought I lost the engine itself and as a result looked closely at this. I found a decent donor vehicle with a 7MGE engine complete. A used 4 cylinder was $750. Overhaul kits are $200-300 for the engine. My donor car is $350 complete.
So for the same price as rebuilding my 4 cylinder, I am starting a 7MGE swap into the 4Runner.
http://www.supracharged.com/
Instead of going with goo Toyota OEM parts. (Sorry Evan). I am going with parts from engbldr parts.
My intention is:
I thought I lost the engine itself and as a result looked closely at this. I found a decent donor vehicle with a 7MGE engine complete. A used 4 cylinder was $750. Overhaul kits are $200-300 for the engine. My donor car is $350 complete.
So for the same price as rebuilding my 4 cylinder, I am starting a 7MGE swap into the 4Runner.
http://www.supracharged.com/
Last edited by farmerj; 08-24-2006 at 07:41 PM.
08-28-2006, 12:32 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by AH64ID
Something else I have been thinking of....
Does anyone here have any experiance with the LCE low psi supercharger??? I am curious if it is a bolt up blower like a TRD (i.e. doesnt need any major ECU or engine mods)... I would consider a blower, mild head work, and a stock cam... although it would probally throw my mpg into the toilet... but still I am curious if anyone here has experiance with it...
Does anyone here have any experiance with the LCE low psi supercharger??? I am curious if it is a bolt up blower like a TRD (i.e. doesnt need any major ECU or engine mods)... I would consider a blower, mild head work, and a stock cam... although it would probally throw my mpg into the toilet... but still I am curious if anyone here has experiance with it...
My understanding was that LC dropped support for that blower for the 22RE application as it was a "blow through" setup and the fuel being put in past the impellers was causing overheating of the blower.. That setup was built to draw-through.
It will add good power, a ton of torque. I ran it on a low compression forged setup, though.. I'd question how the stock EFI deals with fuel control even with mild boost. Note, it's an older design - not very efficient, but it will boost at low RPM.
Want to put down real power, I'm doing turbo 22REs... ping me directly.
I do them right however, with fuel control and low compression.
09-28-2006, 04:12 AM
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Update:
So here is what I am looking at now
ENGNBLDR 261C Cam
ENGNBLDR .5mm SS O/S Valves
LC Oil Pump
Timing chain with metal guides (not sure whose, ENGN or LC)
Otherwise I am going to stick to stock components. I already have a header so I am good there. I do plan to run the AmsOil dual remote oil filtration, which is why I want the LC oil pump. There is also a local shop that cleans and match flows injectors... should be good to go, now just need to get home and get to work...
So here is what I am looking at now
ENGNBLDR 261C Cam
ENGNBLDR .5mm SS O/S Valves
LC Oil Pump
Timing chain with metal guides (not sure whose, ENGN or LC)
Otherwise I am going to stick to stock components. I already have a header so I am good there. I do plan to run the AmsOil dual remote oil filtration, which is why I want the LC oil pump. There is also a local shop that cleans and match flows injectors... should be good to go, now just need to get home and get to work...
