22re No start/ click only problem
09-08-2014, 05:50 PM
#21
Where in that block is the starter relay? The green box? I think the round one is either the EFI or the blinker relay.
09-08-2014, 05:56 PM
#22
If there is wiring flaw and not enough power is getting to solenoid to overcome the spring and other mechanical resistance, it may click but not actuate enough to close contacts, especially if contacts are worn out. Banging on starter may help free the binding.
IF contacts are worn out, but solenoid actuates well enough, it may still close the contact.
That's the common reason for intermittent problem.
09-08-2014, 06:45 PM
#24
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Yea the green block is the starter relay. At this point it's dark and without a shop, I'm sick of holding a flashlight in my mouth.
Last edited by NRBTFOX; 09-08-2014 at 06:53 PM.
09-08-2014, 07:01 PM
#25
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Every mechanical part has some mechanical resistance, possibly binding from friction, junk, etc. If there is wiring flaw and not enough power is getting to solenoid to overcome the spring and other mechanical resistance, it may click but not actuate enough to close contacts, especially if contacts are worn out. Banging on starter may help free the binding. IF contacts are worn out, but solenoid actuates well enough, it may still close the contact. That's the common reason for intermittent problem.
09-08-2014, 09:54 PM
#26
Found Scehmatic for 1990-1995 4Runner
Couple more questions...
The no-start/click-only happens even with clutch safety cancel ON, correct?
You're absolutely, positively, 100%, sure that battery is good, and all connections are good, and that all connections have bright/shiny and not grey metal contacting each other, correct?
OK found THE schematic for 1990-1995 4Runner. According to this, the load supply pin 5 for Starter relay should always be hot. Meaning it does not pass through the Ignition switch ST1 contacts.
This means high current (in red) to energize starter solenoid does not pass through the ignition switch contacts, meaning this particular year-model does not have the wiring flaw present in the 1986 to 1988 22RE's. Green is low current used to turn on starter relay by putting ignition key in Start position.
Let us trust Toyota but always verify... How sure are we that truck was built per schematic?
Factory Service manual actually says that starter relay is in Relay Block number 2 in engine compartment. Meaning easier to check.
To verify that truck is wired according to schematic, and indeed pin5 of starter relay always has 12V even if ST1 contacts of ign switch are open:
Leave battery connected,
Remove starter relay
Volt-meter in volts DC mode
Positive (red) probe on pin 5 terminal in socket
Negative (black) probe on ground- chassis or battery negative terminal.
You should have 12V at pin 5, regardless of ignition switch position. IF you only get 12Volts when ignition is in Start position, then relay is not wired properly. Rewire according to schematic.
Another check to make while you're in there (remember, this is your truck, trust but we verify).
Leave negative probe of VM on ground.
Probe pin 1 in socket with positive probe.
With ignition switch released (only in "ON" position), you should get no voltage.
In start position, you should get 12V.
Keep us posted.
The no-start/click-only happens even with clutch safety cancel ON, correct?
You're absolutely, positively, 100%, sure that battery is good, and all connections are good, and that all connections have bright/shiny and not grey metal contacting each other, correct?
OK found THE schematic for 1990-1995 4Runner. According to this, the load supply pin 5 for Starter relay should always be hot. Meaning it does not pass through the Ignition switch ST1 contacts.
This means high current (in red) to energize starter solenoid does not pass through the ignition switch contacts, meaning this particular year-model does not have the wiring flaw present in the 1986 to 1988 22RE's. Green is low current used to turn on starter relay by putting ignition key in Start position.
Let us trust Toyota but always verify... How sure are we that truck was built per schematic?
Factory Service manual actually says that starter relay is in Relay Block number 2 in engine compartment. Meaning easier to check.
To verify that truck is wired according to schematic, and indeed pin5 of starter relay always has 12V even if ST1 contacts of ign switch are open:
Leave battery connected,
Remove starter relay
Volt-meter in volts DC mode
Positive (red) probe on pin 5 terminal in socket
Negative (black) probe on ground- chassis or battery negative terminal.
You should have 12V at pin 5, regardless of ignition switch position. IF you only get 12Volts when ignition is in Start position, then relay is not wired properly. Rewire according to schematic.
Another check to make while you're in there (remember, this is your truck, trust but we verify).
Leave negative probe of VM on ground.
Probe pin 1 in socket with positive probe.
With ignition switch released (only in "ON" position), you should get no voltage.
In start position, you should get 12V.
Keep us posted.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 09-08-2014 at 09:56 PM.
09-08-2014, 10:41 PM
#27
I have this same problem but i found out my source. It turned out to be the power cable from battery terminal to starter itself. Wire has corrosion. I just wiggle the wire and it starts right up. Try it out?
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LisaLisa (02-04-2024)
09-09-2014, 06:56 PM
#28
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Couple more questions... The no-start/click-only happens even with clutch safety cancel ON, correct? You're absolutely, positively, 100%, sure that battery is good, and all connections are good, and that all connections have bright/shiny and not grey metal contacting each other, correct? OK found THE schematic for 1990-1995 4Runner. According to this, the load supply pin 5 for Starter relay should always be hot. Meaning it does not pass through the Ignition switch ST1 contacts. This means high current (in red) to energize starter solenoid does not pass through the ignition switch contacts, meaning this particular year-model does not have the wiring flaw present in the 1986 to 1988 22RE's. Green is low current used to turn on starter relay by putting ignition key in Start position. Let us trust Toyota but always verify... How sure are we that truck was built per schematic? Factory Service manual actually says that starter relay is in Relay Block number 2 in engine compartment. Meaning easier to check. To verify that truck is wired according to schematic, and indeed pin5 of starter relay always has 12V even if ST1 contacts of ign switch are open: Leave battery connected, Remove starter relay Volt-meter in volts DC mode Positive (red) probe on pin 5 terminal in socket Negative (black) probe on ground- chassis or battery negative terminal. You should have 12V at pin 5, regardless of ignition switch position. IF you only get 12Volts when ignition is in Start position, then relay is not wired properly. Rewire according to schematic. Another check to make while you're in there (remember, this is your truck, trust but we verify). Leave negative probe of VM on ground. Probe pin 1 in socket with positive probe. With ignition switch released (only in "ON" position), you should get no voltage. In start position, you should get 12V. Keep us posted.
09-09-2014, 10:37 PM
#29
Yes the problem occurs with or without the clutch cancel switch engaged. I am 100% positive all connections and battery is good. In your above post the schematic referenced is for a 4 runner(not sure if it makes a difference or not), mine is a pickup. My starter relay is definitely on the drivers side kick panel but I got in there and tested. I have no voltage on any of the pins when the key is in the on position. I have 12v on both the left side pins and 0v on the others when the key is in the start position. I have no idea which one is pin 5. I can't see very well under there but I did triple check all the readings. The last picture is my relay block under the hood. Don't mind the damage from the previous owner, what did that I don't know.
Just a thought, but I was having the same issue as you on both my 89 4runner and my girlfriends 87 4runner. We replaced that starter, relay, batter, cables etc. on both the trucks but could not get it to work normally... I also have an 87 4runner SR5 with an engine that I built myself that never EVER has a starting problem. So, I thought to myself, what is in common with the 89 and my GF's 87 trucks that causes the exact same symptoms, but not on the truck that I rebuilt myself? It turns out that the Toyota starting system (relay, ign switch, circuit opening relay etc.) only serve to move the plunger and connect the contacts together inside the starter. There is NO high current relay for the starter in the system. If the starter is actually clicking and moving and you can hear it clanking, the system is working. What is not working is the connection from the 12mm bolt (that goes directly to the battery + with the big cable) and the ground cable from the block to the negative of the battery. Usually, this is the contacts inside the starter, but if you have a new starter, that is not the problem. On both the 89 and my gf's 87, the engine was leaking oil onto the starter, and there was a bit of oil on the bolt that connects the battery + to the starter on both trucks. This is a problem because oil is an electrical insulator. All I had to do was spray that bolt with brake cleaner and both trucks started instantly.
09-16-2014, 06:55 PM
#31
So when you try cranking, you can actually feel the green relay in kick panel click?
Sorry, no sure if pickup and 4Runners would be same for second gen, but first gen 4Runner and second gen pick up (same chassis and 22RE) share same schematics.
I hope someone with same truck as yours could chime in and share his schematic.
I hope someone with same truck as yours could chime in and share his schematic.
09-16-2014, 07:02 PM
#32
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So when you try cranking, you can actually feel the green relay in kick panel click? Sorry, no sure if pickup and 4Runners would be same for second gen, but first gen 4Runner and second gen pick up (same chassis and 22RE) share same schematics. I hope someone with same truck as yours could chime in and share his schematic.
09-17-2014, 07:57 PM
#33
I have had two of these 88 22RE pickups. There is a cheap way to resolve this. It is called a hot Shot modification. It comes in a $35.00 kit from most parts distributors and is simple to install. And best part is. It works flawlessly
The real problem is resistance has built up in the starter wiring and specifically the ignition switch. It is cost prohibitive to replace all these items
The real problem is resistance has built up in the starter wiring and specifically the ignition switch. It is cost prohibitive to replace all these items
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Eugene driver (03-28-2021)
09-18-2014, 11:08 AM
#35
Guaranteed. The problem will return. I rebuilt 2 starters. Then bought a rebuilt unit. Every time the problem came back.
The problem is. The wiring in the starting system over the years builds up resistance. Consequently when you turn the key to start the engine, instead of sending 12 volts to the starter solenoid. Only 8 or 9 volts ends up at the Solenoid. This is not enough voltage to pull the starter solenoid. That is when you hear the click.
With the Hotshot. A relay is inserted between the starter and a good 12 volt source. Then when you turn the key. A true 12 volts ends up at the starter solenoid. My Hotshot is over 2 years old and always works.
The problem is. The wiring in the starting system over the years builds up resistance. Consequently when you turn the key to start the engine, instead of sending 12 volts to the starter solenoid. Only 8 or 9 volts ends up at the Solenoid. This is not enough voltage to pull the starter solenoid. That is when you hear the click.
With the Hotshot. A relay is inserted between the starter and a good 12 volt source. Then when you turn the key. A true 12 volts ends up at the starter solenoid. My Hotshot is over 2 years old and always works.
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RAD4Runner (11-25-2020)
11-25-2020, 07:38 PM
#39
11-17-2021, 01:09 PM
#40
I put in a temporary relay last year and got back around to sorting this out properly today. Since my truck didn't have a starter at all there was no easy way to tap into the circuit. Got out the multimeter and traced the wire back through the harness and spliced in near the fuse box:
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RAD4Runner (11-17-2021)
