d_bomb

captdash: (off topic) where are you stationed now? ft benning id guess? im out of ft drum.

i plan on doing a blow-thru setup. the last thing i want is an explosive charge sitting under my hood whenever i drive around. also couplers pop off all the time, i dont want to risk blowing propane all over a hot engine and manifold while driving down the road. id also like to put an intercooler.

id put up a link to the 400+ hp saturn but it was removed from youtube for being too long. i can put up a link to the download for any skeptics. we were a tight knit little community and we often bought stuff in group by ins because there's almost no aftermarket for us. all our stuff was either custom from someone who had connections to a machine shop, or modified parts off other cars. if they can pull over 400 horses out of an original 4 cyl, no special stroker or forged crank, and heads that were ported and polished by hand off used engines, i can guarentee a 22r with so much aftermarket can push way more than you think.

i think im going to go for the stage 3 LCE crate motor, set up the propane and turbo on my stock motor just to make sure everything is mocked up and works good, then do the full swap and do a cheap mild rebuild and put the old motor in my '92. but i have a while to think about it.

and im not going to disappear with this project after i start it. ill make sure to have alot of pics and any info i can in a build thread once i get back. patience is really killing me right now lol.

d_bomb

that engine is beautiful, mind if i ask where you found that? and those are the kind of numbers im looking for, but i want it to be able to handle much more. not so i can push it farther later on down the road, but so i have that big window of margine. i dont want to have it setup close to the max it can put out. we built a car at the old shop i worked at in the civilian world, a ~06 GTO 6.0, and we put an sts rear mount turbo setup on it and the guy decided to take the car out a few days after we finished and didnt let it warm up and bent a rod because the wastegate froze shut and he overboosted it (middle of winter). i plan on taking care of this truck as much as i can, but in my experience, its good to leave some room for error.

and thank you everybody for answering my original question for the most part.

d_bomb

nevermind, i found it. alot of great info there

CAPTDASH

What kind of carb worked with this manifold? Can you find this manifold available anywhere? What are the advantages of it? Thanks

CAPTDASH

I hope you guys will remember soldiers like D Bomb who are half way around the world doing what soldiers do(drinking beer & chasing women) LOL, JK. Remember these men and women who are keeping danger away from our front door by risking it all to fight in the enemy's backyard. May God Bless you D Bomb, and all your fellow soldiers.

Weejub

Here here! I know what its like to be over seas and dreaming about being home and these types of dreams get you through the tough times. I was in the Army between the wars, though, so got lucky if you will.

I'm no mechanic, so I dream about these engines:

http://22reperformance.com/22RE%20Pe...20Engines.html

I also can't fathom propane or turbos. But I will need a new 22RE someday.

I'd love to have each kid leave the house with a 1st Gen 4Runner, a new 22RE and standard transmission They gotta pay their way through college, go into the military, etc., though - or that is how the wife and I try to scare them into good grades.

Good luck with this I will be checking out your progress and god bless you and the rest of the men/women in the service, and way for the Holidays!

xxxtreme22r

That isn't an intake manifold, it's a turbo exhaust manifold.

It's a Steed Speed Manifold. Manufacture info if pretty much in the attached links.

http://www.steedspeed.com/

d_bomb

lol, i wish there were beer to drink and women to chase, thats how it is stateside. but thank you for the shout out. and since this is a toyota forum and this thread is already off topic, ill bless you guys with one of my favorite pics from over here so far...



theres many hilux's and land cruisers here. this one came with the optional camel.

CAPTDASH

That camel needs a little of this

mosk

FWIW, the engine/truck in this post is mine.

As xxxtreme22r said, the head gasket is the part of this engine that is most likely to fail when the motor is modified for high performance. Period. There are several reasons for this -- the biggest is that even when converted to ARP studs, you still have a situation where the six studs shared by the inner two cylinders are subjected to twice as much stress as the four end studs: : O : O : O : O :. So they stretch ever so slightly, and it doesn't take much for the head to lift and the HG to fail when you are trying to squeeze more than 200 hp from this motor. It is very hard to overcome this, though obviously there are some who have, at least for a while. I think in terms of daily driver reliability, though, the HG is always going to be something to worry about. Keep in mind, this motor series was pretty overbuilt for its original output(s): 22R (96 hp @ crank); 22RE ( 116 hp @ crank ) ; 22RTE 136 hp @ crank), and you can increase the power output by 50% without too much worry as long as you use ARP studs and a careful assembly technique for installing the head. However, even if you start with a 22RTE, 250 rwhp is more than double its OEM output. This is an old school, early 80's SOHC design, and it just wasn't designed for that much power. You can overbuild the ˟˟˟˟ out of it -- something I have done myself -- but in the end, the HG issue is hard to escape.

There are some very well made components available for this motor -- Eagle 4130 "H" beam rods, JE forged pistons, the OEM forged crank, and even the high nickel content factory block are all up to the task. However, the head gasket remains a weak spot, and there's very little you can do to eliminate this.

That said, there are folks who have made ~400 hp with this motor. Typically, this is done with racing fuel, lots of advance, 15-25+ psi of boost, and/or nitrous. These motors are often raced or driven hard, but aren't typically subjected to the repeated heating and cooling cycles you see in a daily driver.

So...is it possible? Yes. Are you overbuilding if you try to do this, and are there any penalties for overbuilding? No, as long as you can afford the components. In the end, you may still fall short of this goal, but it probably won't be because you twisted a rod or shot a valve through the hood.

I don't know if the above is helpful, but I've given this subject a lot of thought, and the above is my two cents, so take it for what it's worth.

Best of luck to you in your build,

Jeff

d_bomb

thank you for the input. like i said, im not trying to squeeze every horse out of this engine, nor am i actually going to drive it every day. a good 200-250hp at the crank would be plenty for me. right now im leaning toward the stage 3 stroker long block from LCE. it uses a MLS headgasket and ARP studs and, i want to safely assume, "a careful assembly technique for installing the head" which should hopefully help out with the HG issue. im glad you brought up the heating/cooling, as that was another thing i was thinking about with running a highly ported head. im not sure exactly how much material is taken away, but would that result in any kind of warping (without the engine actually overheating, cuz then i can only blame myself, not the material)?

thank you for sharing any info, and btw, i hope to use the intercooler setup you have.

mosk

Oh, a couple of other things to think about:

In my opinion (and from my experience with this motor) on a boosted 22RTE or turbo 22RE, head porting and increasing displacement are generally not worth the effort. If you are redoing the head anyway there's no harm in porting/polishing the head, but there's no need to go crazy, either. You aren't going to see a huge benefit from this. You may see a nice gain in usable torque from changing to a better cam. The DOA C270 is a pretty solid choice and a popular one on the 22RTE-Trucks forum. Tim @ DOA also has another, better turbo cam for bigger motors such as the one you are considering building, and I think it would be worthwhile to talk with him about your cam options.

As for stroking, I'm really not a fan of stroking these motors. Ideally, you want to leave as much material on the cylinder walls as possible for the sake of block integrity. You also want to leave as much material on the crank journals as possible for the same reason. If you have a normally aspirated motor, adding 50 cc/cylinder (or 200 cc's total) isn't a horrible idea, but on a boosted motor this means either cutting the crank and re-welding it with the journals offset, or regrinding the journals and introducing a .25" offset. Obviously, neither of these things makes the crank stronger. Not a big deal on a 150 or 160 hp N/A motor, but these become weaknesses on a motor that's making 250 rwhp.

You have an easy means of stuffing more air + fuel into the cylinder by simply dialing in more boost. Focus on this as your main means of adding power, and work on all of the things you can do to keep the in-cylinder temps down. I think with propane you should have a pretty easy time making lots of power with just a good turbo setup and good fuel management.

My 250 rwhp motor uses a stock crank with journals that are only ground .010" under stock. As for pistons, I seem to recall that we only went .020" over stock bore -- just enough to clean up the cylinders and rebore them for straight + true. We did go to the effort to rebore with a torque plate installed, and some effort was put into making sure the bores were completely square and true w/r/t the crank.

Finally, it's worth mentioning that it took me several years of trial and error to get my motor to the point where it made that much power without breaking stuff. It also took an embarrassing amount of money. If I had it to do all over again I would simply do an engine swap and be done with it. I know you said not to mention that, but I'd be doing you a disservice if I didn't.

Best,

Jeff

peow130

they also start off with dohc engines, that will rev to 7 grand from the factory.
Thats where all the power is in those motors, they like to rev fast, and thats it.
These 22r's make most of the power down low, and we all know that. If you wanna make it rev, it's time to look into a custom crank. Think of a really short stroke with a super lightened aluminum flywheel..

Think of how you can make a 454 rev like a mofo, just drop a scat 406 crank in, change the displacement to a 427 when you DEstroke it, and you've got a big block that LOVES to rev. Same thing with a smallblock, or any other motor. Just destroke it.

I'd like to add this: You can stroke a motor to make big power. Think 383 SBC stroker. But INCREASING displacement will want to decrease the amount the engine will want to rev. And you can say all day that nascar runs 383 strokers, but theres alot more to those motors than what joe in his garage is capable of..
Look at the Z28 302 though. Destroked, making 400HP from the factory. That's a 283 crank (3 inch stroke) in a 327/350 block (with a 4 inch bore)...

bimmertech89

There are a couple tricks that I didn't see mentioned but if they were said sorry to repeat. But as for the head gasket issue you could
1) fire ring the block- that's probably the the strongest rout and obviously you would use arp studs
2) miles head gasket with arp studs and have them over torqued. You can over torque studs and still be safe. It difficult to do but doable

mosk

Wow, bimmertech89, nice zombie bump of a 3 year old thread!

Uh, from personal experience DO NOT o-ring a 22R-series block, unless you intend to use a Cometic-style MLS or a solid copper head gasket gasket and prep the head and deck surfaces to a mirror-like RA50 finish. Been there, tried that, and paid a steep price for it in terms of blown head gaskets. This is because 99.9% of traditional 22R-series head gaskets have extra fire ring webbing on the deck side, and this prevents the o-rings from properly sealing -- instead they serve as "ramps", and actually cause the HG to fail more quickly.

ARP studs are fine, you can over torque them with the right lubricant...but again, it is much more about proper component prep than brute strength.

But the best answer is: don't go nuts with the 22R series motor! There are better choices out there. I say this from experience: anything above 200 rwhp on the 22R series is asking for trouble, and anything above ~225 rwhp is DEMANDING trouble.

Enjoy.

bimmertech89

Holy crap I was using google and didn't realize this thread was that old my bad ha