85Hilux

I got this pickup last year and it was a bit neglected, so I have been going through it to get it road worthy/riding good again.
engine side I already fixed, but I don't know where to begin with this wandering problem.

The steering feels nice and responsive, wheel is on straight, but as you increase in speed it just wants to wander left and right more and more while you are holding the wheel still, and basically if you don't correct it will just randomly change lanes. there is no vibration or death wobble as I understand it, it feels smooth even when its happening.

I took a bunch of pictures hoping someone can point me in the right direction, I am sure this truck needs everything with 240k on it, but I am just trying to fix the problem for now or at least identify it so I can save up for the parts.
I like this truck but it feels dangerous to drive.

Even got it aligned didn't help much. although I am not sure the caster is right or the camber, maybe they didnt do enough toe in? i posted the sheet.

niall

Those front springs look beat, it might just be the camera angle, but that should be fairly high on the repair/replace list for ya.

I would check you're trunion bearings, if they're worn out, it can cause some strange handling characteristics.

85Hilux

Thanks, I wasn't sure if they looked bad or not. Not sure how they look like stock, but I do know when going over bumps in the front, it is sort of spine shattering right now, but I just figured thats how a solid axle rolls? It would be nice if it were softer. the truck is level front to back, so maybe i need springs all around. they seem original but the shocks look changed.

niall

One of the pictures they almost look inverted. which is definately not great.

85Hilux

they are inverted, I thought it didn't look right but was not sure how the stock springs look, I know all the aftermarket ones would have a bend the other way.
what throws me off is that the truck is level, so I think ill go take a look at the rear springs and see if they are inverted also.

can one even buy stock springs anymore? or is it gotta be lift time.

brorealz

Tires wearing evenly? How about any looseness in the front end

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

On one of your pics on the front end, I can see where the bumpstop hits the frame which will add to the spine jarring that you mentioned. You need to eventually correct that problem, not sure which would be the best way, probably replacing the springs but I havent done any on a solid axle and where you would get the parts.

Your tires look to be in great condition but that is only one look from the computer screen. How about rotating the tires from the front to the back and see if that causes any changes and wouldnt cost you anything?

A good alighment shop should be able to help find so answers, how reputable was this shop that you took it to?

85Hilux

Havent driven enough to tell with the tires, when I was installing the wheels I remember checking for play and didn't notice any, but I think I will re-check it and the steering, but oddly enough the steering feels ok at lower speeds.

can anyone else confirm my springs are bad, I am trying to find replacements right now seems like I can only find lift springs but i may have to do that if necessary.

Thanks for the info on the bump stop, Im still trying to figure out exactly what part you mean but I will do some more research on it.
If my springs are really very bad I will be replacing them, the truck can't be driven fast or far this way which is not that safe.
The tires are in good shape perfectly even wear when I put them on, they are off a Tundra so the tire size is a little larger than stock.
The shop is not so reputable but its just an alignment so I figured it can be that bad.
very bad sagging springs could explain that from what I understand so hopefully that is.

85Hilux

ok I just figured out what you mean by the bump stops, and wow, they are sitting like a few inches away from the frame. no wonder my wife calls my truck like riding on a bumper car on a rollercoaster. So I am guessing when your springs arent inverted that distance is much larger, and then I won't be crashing into my frame as often cause that would be great. thanks guys Yotatech is great I would have taken forever to figure out whats out of place.

Do I possibly have the worst beat stock springs ever? or is that when the frame is resting on the bump stop

Is there a normal replacement option for the front leafs, I can seem to find one.
I read about moving the rears up front and doing chevy 63's in the back, but the chevy's require changing the mounts/welding I dont want to do that.
There must be a spring that will just bolt up in the rear or the front, this is sort of crazy I need to get a lift kit or weld to fix this.

ephwang

I'm pretty sure the OEM front springs came reversed arched. I don't think there are springs currently on the market that will give you the original ride height, so you are pretty much stuck on buying 4 new ones.

toyquad

most alignment shops check the front end over before doing an alignment. they should have told you if anything was worn.

that being said my 85 does the exact same thing yours is doing. maybe not as bad, but still wanders. everything is good on my truck. even tire wear.

only thing i havent checked are the steering shaft u joint and the rag joint at the box

my springs are also reversed arched. In one of the many back to the future threads here, you can see the springs reversed arched.... and that was a new truck.

rokblok

iTrader: (1)

Springs look like all the other OE solid axles I've seen. Can't say that is OE, but its possible. Mines lifted so I can't look at mine for reference.

niall

well s#*t, looks like your springs aren't so bad!

85Hilux

well then I take it the springs are just sagging a little and not completely bad which is good news. That doesn't explain the wandering then, so I put the axle up on stands and checked the wheels and steering.

steering seems alright, but I'm going to check again with a second person.
More worrying is when I push in on the wheels there is a like 1/16" of play on the drivers side makes like a little click like the wheels are loose but they aren't, and what feels like a little more maybe 1/8" on the passenger side a little bigger click.

also I think the drivers side of the front axle has a little bit of a leak to it, does this sound like a regular problem like a knuckle rebuild or the trunion bearings people have talked about.

Gizler00

iTrader: (1)

My 85 runner wanders like crazy. Steering is tight. But I completely blame it on the push/pull steering and the 33x12.50's.

But mostly the steering. I'm trying to save to do hy steer. I feel that's the answer to all the wandering issues.

YoungFeller

The original springs do usually end up with a little negative arch. I think they were practically archless when new.

I replaced the front leaf packs with the 20mm packs from OME. I got them from these guys (near the bottom of the page). I'm pretty sure mine were "light" but all they show now are "medium" and "heavy."

http://www.rocky-road.com/4runner.html

The OME packs move those bump stops away from the frame and soak up bumps much better. They do give you about 1.5" of lift though. I added some cheap add-a-leaves to the back to level the truck.

Mine wanders a little on the highway but not as bad as you describe. Have you tried having someone move the steering wheel back and forth while you watch the steering arm and tie rod connections? Sometimes you can spot looseness this way.

Sometimes the steering box develops some play. You can feel it when moving the steering wheel back and forth when stopped. It might not be an issue with yours but if you want to mess with it, on the inside of the steering box is a large nut with a set screw in the middle of it. This sets the pre-load on the steering box gears. If you loosen the big nut and then thread in the little set screw before tightening the nut back down, you can tighten this pre-load. Just don't tighten it too much or it'll add resistance and increase wear.

Drippy front axle knuckles are very common. It's from the gear oil weeping into the knuckles through the front axle end seals. Over time, it can wash the grease out of the knuckles but that's a slow process. You can add grease with a grease gun via a threaded port that's on the top of each knuckle, if I remember right. It might be on the front or back. I tried replacing my axle seals and they held for a while but now I think they're leaking worse than before. Yours look much better than mine right now. I just check the differential oil level now and then (it doesn't really change) and add some grease to the knuckles every few years.

85Hilux

Yeah I read alot about Hy steer, but I can't afford to do a lift and Histeer right now just to fix my wandering problem. even worse, what if its still there after I do all that? which could be the case with the wheels having a tiny bit of play.
something tells me in 1985 this truck didn't wander bad enough to not want to drive it above 40mph, i will slowly figure it out or eventually do lift and histeer but I rather do an engine swap for that money.

Wow, thanks alot for all that info. So I suspect my springs are sagging a few inches then if they were originally flat or slightly inverse arched. I don't see this being the cause of my wandering then if they aren't that bad, there is still some travel in them.
Thanks for the link to the OME springs, this is the first place I have seen them selling just the Springs which is nice and the quality of OME I have heard about my brother had full OME setup on his cruiser.

I checked the steering for play, and not really finding much, except a little flex on the steering shaft before it hits the box, there is like 2 joints on at the bottom of the shaft and 1 at the top that the rubber may have seen better days.
The linkage after the box seems good, and I already did that tighten the gearbox thing that was the first thing I found online about it. It did seem to help but now it feels tighter but still wanders. Im starting to suspect that steering shaft going into the box now.

So I know about the slow leak and that contaminated the knuckle grease over time, mine still looks to have fluid coming (its still wet) which doesn't concern me about leaking as much as the play in the wheels that I described.
Is it normal to be able to move the wheel enough to make something in the knuckle click and move ever so slightly, or is that normal play for a solid axle?
basically what I described in my previous post of pushing on the wheels, and the tie-rod doesn't move its all in the knuckle whatever is moving.

So is it looking like an axle rebuild or new steering joints on the steering shaft

ephwang

I would try replacing the steering stabilizer. One of my trucks would "shake" at a certain speed and replacing the stabilizer stopped it.

YoungFeller

True, the springs and leaky knuckles are unrelated items to the steering wander.

Do you mean you can grab the tire and feel looseness there? That's probably not a good sign. I wonder if you have too much play in the front wheel bearings. Or it could be in the steering links after the box. Have someone move the wheel and watch the drag link and that J-arm between the steering box and the axle. I don't have any play there.

The steering stabilizer doesn't really help with wandering...it helps more with bump-steer.

Those OME springs also give you extra articulation so you may have to swap shocks and brake lines as well to allow for the extra droop. I just went the the OME shocks that are listed by the springs and picked up some cheap, no-name longer, braided brake lines from 4W Parts Wholesalers.

85Hilux

I just changed it out sunday, and it helped tighten things up a little feels more firm on the wheel but it still wanders the same.

Yeah I can grab the tire at 12 and 6 oclock and move it enough to get a good click out of it, just barely noticeable by eye, and the locking thing in the middle moves also with the wheel. none of the steering stuff seems to be moving when I do this, I am thinking it has to be wheel bearings another person had told me it could be that and that I should tighten them? not sure how to do that yet but will look into that.

I also may have a little play on the steering shaft from the steering wheel to the steering box, it has like 2 u-joint things on it and one of them has a rubber thing it sits on that is old and flexing a tiny bit, I would think this is not a big deal but it could be part of the problem now that I think about it if the wheels want to move they will and that will flex cause I am holding the wheel straight? I am going to see If I can find those parts also.

Thanks for the info on the shocks and brake lines, I think a lift will be in the future but I gotta fix this problem first before I put it any higher in the air.