83pingpong

OK, so I've owned, driven (and loved) underpowered vehicles forever, including 60's volkswagen bugs, and power is not a priority for me (but it's nice to have it in my 2013 Passat TDI, which gets 40+mpg and makes over 250 bhp torque, but I digress

But pushing a snowplow more than 20 feet where more than 5" of snow is expected means that engine has probably been pushed hard! How many clutches do you suppose have been replaced on that rig?!?!? Well... maybe the driver had a clue, and new how to use the weight/inertia, and make several runs on big loads! But don't forget, it is over 30 years old, and the entire drivetrain is experiencing serious stress pushing a plow. And it is SLOW on the road with all of that weight. Look at that steel bed...AND plow gear!!! Can you imagine finding yourself behind that thing on a two lane in your first gen pickup, and have a hard time passing on that curvy road?


Cool? yes. But you can convert any truck to a dually with the right wheel hardware. Hey, if you want to push a blade outside of your own ranch, you will probably need a bigger truck !

85TurboRunner

Is there a point to this?

83pingpong

Those front wheels are NEW Black rock 15" wheels...NO-I'm wrong!-just old wagon wheel steel wheels.

Point is obvious... a snowplow pushes hundreds of pounds of snow, and a 22R can't do it. A good driver can use the inertia of the truck, but can't power through a big plow, with or without duallies. Do you understand what I am saying?
It is an interesting truck, but seriously limited.

85TurboRunner

You mean those old flat black painted wagon wheels from the 80's most likely, yeah brand spanking new.

Anyway its a cool old truck that has probably spent many years plowing on dirt roads.

So you have a problem with a 22r and plowing that is your point right? Do a little searching on yota snowplows and you'll come to find they have been in use since the Hilux was first built.

83pingpong

This discussion goes right to the core of why you can't get a 4x4 Ranger anymore. And forget manual transmissions

The market in the US, according to the "big 3" will not support a light truck with a 4 cylinder eight valve fuel injected 4x4, "because" it cost just a little more to make a "full size" truck like F150, and you can charge more (profit!). You couldn't even get a 4 cylinder engine in the Ranger in the years just before it's demise. I know that a good driver can use 100 hp to push snow. Most drivers need something that feels like a tank to push snow, and any business owner will tell you a "full sized" 4x4 is what you need. It is hard to argue with them. The stripped commercial decal company name on the door shows this was owned by a drilling company- setup as a rig tender, so they presumably wanted to haul some stuff on the heavy side !

The OP's dually looks like a commercial vehicle with that steel deck. It is extremely unusual. As I said, interesting, but the duallies don't give it an advantage. A standard first gen 4x4 with real commercial traction tires and a blade will move just as much snow. I have first hand experience to say that traction is not the hurdle... it is POWER. A few sand bags or other crap in the bed of a standard 4x4 (no duallies) will optimize traction for the little engine. Duallies are cool, not useful.

Stated more simply...you will run out of power long before you will run out of traction if you have a 22R (dually not needed).

If you add a couple of cylinders, add more weight (the steel deck), and duallies, you will get an advantage. Less is more, but with all that weight, and without the torque, less is just plain less! And the extra weight of those wheels cost fuel.

I would add that the plow mount looks homemade, extended and weak. A good plow has short arms to the frame, and hydraulic lift right there in the middle. Maybe they looked this way 30 years ago. Better photos would help. For pushing snow, (or towing), you just need more torque, not duallies.

My point? bigger engine is needed, not duallies. Duallies are also useful if you have a box truck and bigger payload.

RandyAk

Plow was added a few months ago with a homemade mount. It broke and hasnt seen much use so it wasn't a plow truck for long. It also comes with a big hydraulic rear mounted plow/grater system. Wierd.

Will take some more pics tomorrow and have them posted around 2pm Ak time. I am learning a lot from you guys, I appreciate it.

83pingpong

I like those flipside rails on the flatbed. Makes for easy access to the load and easy loading. Maybe PO found one of those one ton dually axles 83 mentioned, and installed it. The tires do actually look like narrow commercial traction tires. It would be way underpowered with all that weight, but running in lower gears, would get around just fine. And there is always low range!

Mitchell12

I've seen lots of old yota's as plow trucks here, that and old nissan hard body trucks and such.

Also we get a fairly substantial amount of snow ourselves, and it's always very heavy since we get like 50cm then that mixes with sleet.

You run out of traction long before you run out of power, 4wd and some added weight (usually a salt delivery system in the back) is plenty to plow large parking lots.

Traction IS the hurdle. Especially up north here where we don't shut anything down for all but the most extreme storms. The plow vehicles will usually have to plow the parking lot up to 6 or 7 times in one day to keep it clear.

The vehicle in this thread is extremely cool and without a doubt a capable machine.

83pingpong

Dude... Duallies are for payload more than for traction. If you have enough weight, you'll get more payload AND more traction. But the 22R is not powerful enough to pull that much weight to exploit that extra footprint:

If you lose traction before bogging down a 22R, your tires are too wide, and do not have aggressive tread (real commercial traction narrow tires), and/or you need more weight on top of those tires.

An extra set of tires/wheels just causes more floating (actually LESS traction), unless you add even MORE weight to exploit the additional footprint!

Standard 4x4 (no duallies) is fine if you have the right tires AND enough weight on them. If you have the right tires and enough weight on them, the 22R WILL DEFINITELY bog down before the truck loses traction while pushing a blade.

RandyAk

Here are some more pics, any help identifying what all I have here would be much appreciated. Love this guy, but have not taken ownership yet as I am waiting to get the title and tags so I can drive it home.










Thanks Guys!

83pingpong

Really interesting. Looks like carb was swapped long ago, and that's definitely a header, no Aisin locking hubs, and a lot of clean up will be needed to assess the rust situation. I thought I own a first gen 4x4... this must be "zeroth gen" !

That model plate in the engine bay indicates a W50 (huh!?) transmission doesn't it? Not even on the Marlin Crawler gear ratio chart. This must be pretty rare. And what's that on the dashboard??? SR5!

I wonder if the dually setup was done before dealer sold it? Not that far fetched.

btw-do you get the smoker too?

Toyota~Boy

iTrader: (2)

The front axle doesn't look toyota. And it's 5lug. I dunno much about old toys but I do believe its not right

Rusto

Don't know if this is right, but Wikipedia has something to add about the W-50 transmission:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_W_transmission#W50

Offered on RWD only hilux, steel-cased instead of aluminum and for RWD only.

• First Gear: 3.287:1
• Second Gear: 2.043:1
• Third Gear: 1.394:1
• Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
• Fifth Gear: 0.853:1
• Reverse: -4.039:1

redbayredneck

On the wolverine conversions, if you read the beginning of this thread, used Jeep front axles. All Jeeps are 5x4.5 lug pattern.

83

Exactly.

And W50 isn't rare, it's just a tranny nobody cares about, because it only came on 2wd vehicles. Pretty sure it's what's in my Chinook (not stock, someone added it).

Now maybe we can let this be about this guys truck, and take the dually/traction/power/plowing debate somewhere else.

83pingpong

The question of whether the duallies helped push the plow is definitely about this Toyota truck. And it is relevant to this truck, and this thread.

Read post # 2 (AND #4) on this thread at thedieselstop to see what I was talking about:
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...action-239685/
Maybe this is news to some people, but doesn't make it any less true.
Anyway...

This early 4x4 conversion Toyota must have worked as an oil drilling rig tender, so benefited from the duallies for carrying larger payload. So if the axle is up to it, this Toyota would take a nice camper truck.

What's really cool about this 78 is the conversion. Maybe the W50 is not a rare transmission in other vehicles, but obviously rare in a Toyota 4x4. pre-79 4x4 and especially this dually 4x4 conversion are so rare these days... much more rare than first or second gen US factory quad cab conversions.

This is a great find. If you plan lots of work on the truck, start a build thread at some point. Either way, please don't stop posting news and photos while you get into it.

83

I guess you just like to argue, but that's cool, sometimes I do, too.

Your debate is with another member, ignoring the OP. I don't remember the OP saying anything about how he'll use the truck and whether the dually or plow is a good thing. Just that it's a cool truck he's about to buy. This seems like a side debate to me, which he hasn't even bothered to acknowledge.

But I'm not going to play moderator. Do what you like.

83

Oh...and just because the tag says W50 doesn't make it so. It also says 20R. I would guess that with the 4x4 conversion, also came a tranny conversion.

The tag tells you what came stock on this truck. The 4x4 and dually are both NOT stock. So the tag tells you nothing, except what it shipped over with from Japan. My guess is that the W50 got swapped out with the original axles.

83pingpong

Yeah, I noticed that... the conversion got the added displacement of 22R, or added later. I wonder if any other conversion like this has the 20R??

Sorry if it sounds like arguing Zach. I think it is a good thing to dispel misconceptions. So the duallies on this conversion are good for a camper or hauling an extra 500 lb- uh, maybe (springs and axle are also a factor). Looks good too!

Rusker

Great looking Chinook. Still have it?