Need help with my 1982 idle
#1
Need help with my 1982 idle
Please watch YouTube to see explanation.
well idk how to upload it but my channel is T.I.T.S. Toyotas in the Sierras and it’s titled 22R truck won’t idle.
well idk how to upload it but my channel is T.I.T.S. Toyotas in the Sierras and it’s titled 22R truck won’t idle.
#2
Usually just havta copy & paste the video webpage address & post it. Like this:
Had a look at your video. 8 degrees BTDC is the correct timing spec for a '82 22R. The idle section at the end sounds good to me. But with that said, I think you may have the distributor installed one tooth off, as they say. You have it clocked all the way to the right (meaning with the distributor hold-down bolt at the top of the adjustment slot, as seen in the video), and that position gets you the 8 degree timing. But you can't move the distributor & make the timing mark go down to a lesser number? I also assume that moving the distributor the other way (moving distributor so that hold-down bolt goes more towards the bottom of the adjustment slot) makes the timing mark go "left", or to a more retarded setting like 12 or 14 BTDC?
If yes to both questions I say your distributor is a tooth off. Check out this post: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-marks-216514/
Scroll down to where there are 3 pictures in a row. That shows how it can be both ways & yes, even with a tooth off & the distributor adjusted the way you have it, it can still start & run. The "full stop" distributor position kinda tells me this is the case, at least IMO. When it's on the "right tooth", the hold-down bolt should be somewhere near the middle of the slot, & the timing should be close to dead on.
Other things:
The carb will usually have one outlet that has ported vacuum, NOT manifold vacuum. The ported vacuum only has vacuum past idle; manifold vacuum is always present elsewise below the carb's bottom throttle plates. Ported vacuum is routed inside the carb to a place on the throat above those bottle plates. That's perfect for distributor vacuum advance, as you only want the distributor to advance past idle, but not at idle. If you want to make sure you've got it hooked up to the correct port, you'll need a vacuum gauge to test how each outlet acts under idle & rev. When you find one with no vacuum at idle but vacuum above idle, that's the one you want for the vacuum advance. Actually, you said you unplugged the hose at idle and the idle didn't change. That's a fairly good sign you've got it hooked up to the correct port.
Also you are correct. On a "desmogged" 22R like yours (emissions equipment deleted, like the vacuum retard valve), you do plug off the inside diaphragm & provide vacuum to the outside diaphragm. The outside one is advance; the inside one is retard, & used to work with the emissions system stuff. There is no harm in running with the inside one plugged, with the engine set up the way you do.
I doubt the vacuum hose on the charcoal canister will make any difference to timing or idle quality. Most Weber 32/36'a usually do not have a fuel or vapor return line like a stock Aisin carb does. Your setup on that makes sense to me; the charcoal canister can draw fuel vapor from the tank & send it to the engine to be burned, instead of having tank vapor pressure problems.
Video @ 4:30 - you said 0.08 & 0.12 millimeters on the valves. Actually those are the *inch* measurements. In millimeters it's 2mm & 3mm, respectively. I'm sure you just misspoke.
Hope this helps.
Had a look at your video. 8 degrees BTDC is the correct timing spec for a '82 22R. The idle section at the end sounds good to me. But with that said, I think you may have the distributor installed one tooth off, as they say. You have it clocked all the way to the right (meaning with the distributor hold-down bolt at the top of the adjustment slot, as seen in the video), and that position gets you the 8 degree timing. But you can't move the distributor & make the timing mark go down to a lesser number? I also assume that moving the distributor the other way (moving distributor so that hold-down bolt goes more towards the bottom of the adjustment slot) makes the timing mark go "left", or to a more retarded setting like 12 or 14 BTDC?
If yes to both questions I say your distributor is a tooth off. Check out this post: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-marks-216514/
Scroll down to where there are 3 pictures in a row. That shows how it can be both ways & yes, even with a tooth off & the distributor adjusted the way you have it, it can still start & run. The "full stop" distributor position kinda tells me this is the case, at least IMO. When it's on the "right tooth", the hold-down bolt should be somewhere near the middle of the slot, & the timing should be close to dead on.
Other things:
The carb will usually have one outlet that has ported vacuum, NOT manifold vacuum. The ported vacuum only has vacuum past idle; manifold vacuum is always present elsewise below the carb's bottom throttle plates. Ported vacuum is routed inside the carb to a place on the throat above those bottle plates. That's perfect for distributor vacuum advance, as you only want the distributor to advance past idle, but not at idle. If you want to make sure you've got it hooked up to the correct port, you'll need a vacuum gauge to test how each outlet acts under idle & rev. When you find one with no vacuum at idle but vacuum above idle, that's the one you want for the vacuum advance. Actually, you said you unplugged the hose at idle and the idle didn't change. That's a fairly good sign you've got it hooked up to the correct port.
Also you are correct. On a "desmogged" 22R like yours (emissions equipment deleted, like the vacuum retard valve), you do plug off the inside diaphragm & provide vacuum to the outside diaphragm. The outside one is advance; the inside one is retard, & used to work with the emissions system stuff. There is no harm in running with the inside one plugged, with the engine set up the way you do.
I doubt the vacuum hose on the charcoal canister will make any difference to timing or idle quality. Most Weber 32/36'a usually do not have a fuel or vapor return line like a stock Aisin carb does. Your setup on that makes sense to me; the charcoal canister can draw fuel vapor from the tank & send it to the engine to be burned, instead of having tank vapor pressure problems.
Video @ 4:30 - you said 0.08 & 0.12 millimeters on the valves. Actually those are the *inch* measurements. In millimeters it's 2mm & 3mm, respectively. I'm sure you just misspoke.
Hope this helps.
#3
82 timing
Ok first I would like to say thank you for the response and taking time to look into this for me. I took your advice and this morning I went out and took two short videos on my phone of the distributor before and after moving a tooth.
first video is with the distributor turned all the way to the right(clockwise) and a timing light shows at 8 degrees.
second video is with the distributor one tooth over and turned all the way to the left(counter clockwise) and it looks like the truck is at -5 degrees but any more adjustment clockwise would put it further out to the negative.
I will attempt to post the to I phone videos below…
first video is with the distributor turned all the way to the right(clockwise) and a timing light shows at 8 degrees.
second video is with the distributor one tooth over and turned all the way to the left(counter clockwise) and it looks like the truck is at -5 degrees but any more adjustment clockwise would put it further out to the negative.
I will attempt to post the to I phone videos below…
Last edited by YotaRick27; Mar 17, 2023 at 08:27 AM.
#4
I hope you can get the vids posted here, I'd like to see them.
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but what follows might be your answer, or could help someone else reading this. Alll of a sudden I am having a similar issue with my 20R now.
I went to do a carb adjustment yesterday & first got the timing light out to verify timing before attempting the carb adjustment. The mark was showing at something like 15 degrees BTDC.
I haven't touched the distributor in a few years so I didn't understand how it could have gotten so way off from the normal 8 BTDC. Turning the distributor all the way right (clockwise) only got my to about 9 or 10 BTDC. So I figured either the timing chain had jumped a tooth (unlikely, as my whole timing chain set has less than 4K miles on it & I know for sure it was properly done) or I had previously installed the distributor one tooth off myself.
30+ attempts to reset the distributor later, and I still couldn't make the timing mark hit the 8 BTDC setting.
And the results of where the mark ended up after each try were always totally different, never the same twice.
So back to square one I went. Removed distributor & checked it out. Advance weights & springs OK, vac advance OK, cap & rotor OK (also less than 4K miles on them). Same for wires & plugs, coil & ignition module.
Took valve cover off & checked all valve clearances; all were in spec. No broken springs or rocker arms either. Cam looks good & intact. Cam gear, timing chain, guides & tensioner all check out good (again, less than 4K miles on everything there).
Manually rotated engine until I got the "bright mark" on the timing chain at the top, along with the "dot" on the cam gear. This way I know the engine is at TDC on #1 cylinder on compression stroke.
Looked for the timing mark and it was nowhere to be seen around the timing tab on the timing cover.
It was sitting far to the right of the tab. If I had to estimate, it was indicating at somewhere around 30 degrees ATDC, or at least 30 degrees "out" from where it should be.
Reinstalled distributor per normal procedure & tried a start. Started right up but running a little slow. Turned distributor all the way to the right brought the mark back towards the tab. Made the engine run better, but the mark never even got to the tab.
I also happened to notice that my belts weren't running smoothly. The parts of the belts between the pulleys were bouncing. After shutdown I checked them for looseness. There was none, they had the usual 3/8" deflection, per spec (spec is 1/4" to 1/2" deflection).
That's when I finally had the thought of "Maybe the timing mark is the inconsistent thing here?" Yep, it's the Harmonic Balancer.
I pulled it & reinstalled it during the timing chain replacement & when I timed the engine afterwards everything was normal. I was able to set the timing to 8 BTDC then with no issues & still had the bolt in the middle of the slot.
The mark is on the Balancer's outer ring. It is randomly moving around on me because that ring is slipping around on the Balancer's hub every time I stop the engine.
Apparently, the rubber part between the ring & hub has "delaminated" from the ring, allowing the ring to slip.
What's weird tho, is that once I got it running OK again, I took a short drive (2 miles), came back & checked timing again (while engine still running) & the mark location had not changed.
Shut it down & restarted, checked with timing light again, & the mark was even more to the right than before, but the engine still started & ran fine.
So with this going on it's impossible to time it with the timing light, & explains why even at full adjustment in the slot, I can't get the mark where it needs to be. I've had the truck 25 years & never replaced the balancer, so I guess it's due.
New balancer on it's way from Rock Auto + a new Crank Pulley Bolt from Toyota. I'm sure this is going to fix the wandering mark problem & I will report back when it's done.
Take a good look at your balancer while it's running. Look for any kind of wobble at all, weird "belt dance" or belt misalignment, or squeak, rattle or knocking sounds from it.
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but what follows might be your answer, or could help someone else reading this. Alll of a sudden I am having a similar issue with my 20R now.
I went to do a carb adjustment yesterday & first got the timing light out to verify timing before attempting the carb adjustment. The mark was showing at something like 15 degrees BTDC.

I haven't touched the distributor in a few years so I didn't understand how it could have gotten so way off from the normal 8 BTDC. Turning the distributor all the way right (clockwise) only got my to about 9 or 10 BTDC. So I figured either the timing chain had jumped a tooth (unlikely, as my whole timing chain set has less than 4K miles on it & I know for sure it was properly done) or I had previously installed the distributor one tooth off myself.
30+ attempts to reset the distributor later, and I still couldn't make the timing mark hit the 8 BTDC setting.
And the results of where the mark ended up after each try were always totally different, never the same twice.
So back to square one I went. Removed distributor & checked it out. Advance weights & springs OK, vac advance OK, cap & rotor OK (also less than 4K miles on them). Same for wires & plugs, coil & ignition module.
Took valve cover off & checked all valve clearances; all were in spec. No broken springs or rocker arms either. Cam looks good & intact. Cam gear, timing chain, guides & tensioner all check out good (again, less than 4K miles on everything there).
Manually rotated engine until I got the "bright mark" on the timing chain at the top, along with the "dot" on the cam gear. This way I know the engine is at TDC on #1 cylinder on compression stroke.
Looked for the timing mark and it was nowhere to be seen around the timing tab on the timing cover.

It was sitting far to the right of the tab. If I had to estimate, it was indicating at somewhere around 30 degrees ATDC, or at least 30 degrees "out" from where it should be.
Reinstalled distributor per normal procedure & tried a start. Started right up but running a little slow. Turned distributor all the way to the right brought the mark back towards the tab. Made the engine run better, but the mark never even got to the tab.
I also happened to notice that my belts weren't running smoothly. The parts of the belts between the pulleys were bouncing. After shutdown I checked them for looseness. There was none, they had the usual 3/8" deflection, per spec (spec is 1/4" to 1/2" deflection).
That's when I finally had the thought of "Maybe the timing mark is the inconsistent thing here?" Yep, it's the Harmonic Balancer.
I pulled it & reinstalled it during the timing chain replacement & when I timed the engine afterwards everything was normal. I was able to set the timing to 8 BTDC then with no issues & still had the bolt in the middle of the slot.
The mark is on the Balancer's outer ring. It is randomly moving around on me because that ring is slipping around on the Balancer's hub every time I stop the engine.
Apparently, the rubber part between the ring & hub has "delaminated" from the ring, allowing the ring to slip.
What's weird tho, is that once I got it running OK again, I took a short drive (2 miles), came back & checked timing again (while engine still running) & the mark location had not changed.
Shut it down & restarted, checked with timing light again, & the mark was even more to the right than before, but the engine still started & ran fine.
So with this going on it's impossible to time it with the timing light, & explains why even at full adjustment in the slot, I can't get the mark where it needs to be. I've had the truck 25 years & never replaced the balancer, so I guess it's due.
New balancer on it's way from Rock Auto + a new Crank Pulley Bolt from Toyota. I'm sure this is going to fix the wandering mark problem & I will report back when it's done.
Take a good look at your balancer while it's running. Look for any kind of wobble at all, weird "belt dance" or belt misalignment, or squeak, rattle or knocking sounds from it.
#5
Ok been a couple weeks but I've still been hunting down this rough idle issue. Here is what I have done since the last video I posted...... Tripple checked that I'm not skipping a tooth when pulling out the distributor to put a timing light on it. The closest I can get the timing light to 0 TDC is 8 degrease advanced with the disto advance line disconnected. if I pull the distributor a tooth then I get 12 degrees retar. So back to 8 degrees and went looking in other places. Put the truck at TDC (0) and pulled the valve cover and took the crank bolt out to verify that both timing marks are at a perfect 12 O-clock and they are.(so no bad harmonic balancer) odd thing is though it was a dual row timing chain (put in by someone in the past) and the timing dot on the cam is facing the back of the motor but that should not matter. So then I rebuilt the carb to find out there was a bad float. one side cracked in half. Haza!!! Ordered a new one and after 3 re adjustments to get the float at a perfect 35mm/51mm I put it back together thinking that for sure was the issue......NOPE still a rough idle. ok last thing I have not touched was plug wires. went to oreliys and put new ones in. still rough. Ok so I remember that I'm only getting 12 volts when at idle to the battery and someone told me that I should have 14 at idle. when to Oreily's and asked if they had any in stock. they said 40 or 50 amp. but only had the 50 in stock. my dumbass not knowing took half a day to drain the coolant, pull the bottom hose and got the old alternator out. installed the new one then discovered the connectors were different. pulled wires and tried to wire it direct. (dumb) didn't work. so I ordered the right one 40amp Online. Finally showed up and Stoked on getting new parts I got it in and installed in no time. started the truck and checked voltage. 18v. after some research and touching the super-hot external voltage regulator that was my next bet. Off to the parts store again. they said they only have the 55amp one in stock so i was bummed my wit told me to look at it anyway. sure, enough it was a 5 wire 40amp style so I got it. plugged it in a HAZA 14 volts at idle. BUT STILL A ROUGH IDLE!!!!!! honestly pulling my hair out now. no vacuum leaks. last thing I can think of is something is wrong with why I can't get the timing light to 0 but only 8 degrees advance as the lowest. So idk where to turn next. thinking about driving it for a bit to see if it self corrects itself(i know it won't i just want to drive it). but i now have a new issue the dang lights in the dash stopped working. I have no blown fuses in the box in the floorboard of the driver side. and tried a jumper wire across the dimmer knob and that didnt help so now im worried the 18v jump for a sec fried some stuff. all the bulbs in the cluster are fine. anyway thats the update. time for some more whiskey. any advice would be greatly appreciated.
#6
Hopefully found the issue
I re did a compression test with a brand new tester and found
1:80
2:120
3:120
4:120
so I re checked again and sure enough I knew I had a dead or sometimes dead number one cylinder. When I had pulled the plugs I 1 was also wet like not burning fuel. Then randomly father gifted me with a bore camera and I noticed some scratches on the cylinder walls. So this Easter I pulled out the motor and tore it all down. I was skeptical after looking at the cylinder walls because it was not that bad. Like a lite hone would fix it up so I flipped the head and got a cup of gas and poured it in. Sure enough it leaked out through the intake valve. So I tapped it and then I sealed back up??? So where I sit is I’m going to call to see if I can get a shop to completely go through the block and bore and deck and clean it then do a full bottom end rebuild. I’m hoping I can drop it offf at lce. But I did notice the head has a small crack from someone over tightening the bolt for the intake…. Probably me. And with the leaking valves im thinking it’s time for a new one plus cylinder number two has seen some debre floating around. But I can’t seem to find a head for and 82 22r lce and other sites only show 85 being the oldest?
1:80
2:120
3:120
4:120
so I re checked again and sure enough I knew I had a dead or sometimes dead number one cylinder. When I had pulled the plugs I 1 was also wet like not burning fuel. Then randomly father gifted me with a bore camera and I noticed some scratches on the cylinder walls. So this Easter I pulled out the motor and tore it all down. I was skeptical after looking at the cylinder walls because it was not that bad. Like a lite hone would fix it up so I flipped the head and got a cup of gas and poured it in. Sure enough it leaked out through the intake valve. So I tapped it and then I sealed back up??? So where I sit is I’m going to call to see if I can get a shop to completely go through the block and bore and deck and clean it then do a full bottom end rebuild. I’m hoping I can drop it offf at lce. But I did notice the head has a small crack from someone over tightening the bolt for the intake…. Probably me. And with the leaking valves im thinking it’s time for a new one plus cylinder number two has seen some debre floating around. But I can’t seem to find a head for and 82 22r lce and other sites only show 85 being the oldest?
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