good flexx
Jul 6, 2008 | 12:35 PM
#22
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/4R_suspe...gerRearSprings
Shocks would vary with how you want to set them up:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/4R_suspe...shtml#R-Shocks
Jul 6, 2008 | 02:00 PM
#23
Contributing Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,875
Likes: 3
From: Longmont, CO
First, IMHO, flex is overrated, but if you've already got solid axles, may as well get what you can out of them ... If you REALLY wheel the truck and want flex, skip all the mass-market springs (Marlin, Allpro, TrailGear) and go for ones built for YOUR truck - Alcan.
http://www.alcanspring.com/
Give them the weight of your truck on each axle, and they will build a pack just for you. This will give you the best spring rate possible, and the prices are actually not too bad if you stay away from the Orbit Eyes....
What steering do you have on here? Unless you've converted to crossover (and may as well go high steer at that point), it's going to limit your flex ... as will the torque tube and the sway bar.
... and then there's the shocks, brake lines, any number of things that may be preventing the truck from working to it's full potential.
http://www.alcanspring.com/
Give them the weight of your truck on each axle, and they will build a pack just for you. This will give you the best spring rate possible, and the prices are actually not too bad if you stay away from the Orbit Eyes....
What steering do you have on here? Unless you've converted to crossover (and may as well go high steer at that point), it's going to limit your flex ... as will the torque tube and the sway bar.
... and then there's the shocks, brake lines, any number of things that may be preventing the truck from working to it's full potential.
Jul 6, 2008 | 02:01 PM
#24
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,371
Likes: 3
From: Here in the PNW
One thing you can do is set up a pair of ramps and spend a few hours under the truck trying various things to see what is hanging up the suspension:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Ramp.shtml
Things to try are with and without shocks, with and without sway bar, etc. Also look for the way the vehicle leans on diagonal ramps. It will lean towards the corner with the softer springs and away from the corner with the stiff springs. Why is that important? Well, you might find the rear springs are too stiff, for example. Often the case in a pickup with no weight in the bed. Might consider pulling a leaf out of the spring pack and retesting. Usually pulling the second from the bottom leaf in the pack is a good one to remove.
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Ramp.shtml
Things to try are with and without shocks, with and without sway bar, etc. Also look for the way the vehicle leans on diagonal ramps. It will lean towards the corner with the softer springs and away from the corner with the stiff springs. Why is that important? Well, you might find the rear springs are too stiff, for example. Often the case in a pickup with no weight in the bed. Might consider pulling a leaf out of the spring pack and retesting. Usually pulling the second from the bottom leaf in the pack is a good one to remove.
Jul 7, 2008 | 10:49 PM
#25
Banned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: 20 min from hammers
I must kindly disagree! Without flex you have a tendency to hang a wheel, causing all torque to go to 1 wheel (unless you have an open diff) and more chance of breakage. Additionally with fewer wheels on the ground you have less traction making obstacles much more difficult and even impassable.
Alcan does make great springs (a bit pricy) but I see people using All Pro, Marlin and even Trail gear springs with no problems. They provide great flex and ok road manners. Additionally you did not state whether or not this is a daily driver. If it is not then the above mentioned springs all work well. If it is a daily driver and only a occasional off roader you need to weigh the pros and cons of what you will lose for the extra flex (namely on road stability).
I have installed more than 1 SAS kit from All pro and from Trail Gear, off-road they perform well but are a little spongee on the street.
Alcan does make great springs (a bit pricy) but I see people using All Pro, Marlin and even Trail gear springs with no problems. They provide great flex and ok road manners. Additionally you did not state whether or not this is a daily driver. If it is not then the above mentioned springs all work well. If it is a daily driver and only a occasional off roader you need to weigh the pros and cons of what you will lose for the extra flex (namely on road stability).
I have installed more than 1 SAS kit from All pro and from Trail Gear, off-road they perform well but are a little spongee on the street.
Jul 8, 2008 | 02:03 PM
#28
Banned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21
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From: 20 min from hammers
they are a little spongee on the road (part of what you loose to gain flex) but so are the trail gear springs and marlins as well. As for sagging, all springs sag over time. It kinda goes back to what i was saying about what are you willing to give up to gain the extra flex.
Jul 8, 2008 | 05:10 PM
#29
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 775
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR
i'd heavily disagree there. flex is probably the bigest advantage off-road. having all your wheels on the ground provides the best traction, locked or not! you also have less chance of your suspension unloading and rolling a rig if you have all wheels on the ground. the dead weight of an axle and big arse tire is not something i want in the air, i want it on the ground keeping my COG low.
there is a reason comp buggies are built for maximum suspension travel. its NOT overrated.
Al
there is a reason comp buggies are built for maximum suspension travel. its NOT overrated.
Al
Jul 8, 2008 | 05:19 PM
#30
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 3
From: oregon
i'd heavily disagree there. flex is probably the bigest advantage off-road. having all your wheels on the ground provides the best traction, locked or not! you also have less chance of your suspension unloading and rolling a rig if you have all wheels on the ground. the dead weight of an axle and big arse tire is not something i want in the air, i want it on the ground keeping my COG low.
there is a reason comp buggies are built for maximum suspension travel. its NOT overrated.
Al
there is a reason comp buggies are built for maximum suspension travel. its NOT overrated.
Al
Jul 8, 2008 | 07:26 PM
#31
Yes, good wheel travel is important off-road, at least when it is being effective. Keeping tires on the ground is good as long as they have some weight on them in order to get traction. Going to double shackles or revolver shackles or buggy leaves to get "more flex" is usually not very helpful off road. With those you usually have the axle just falling away from the frame with it offering no stability or traction and when that happens to be on the uphill end of the truck, you may be going over.
But I have done the Rubicon trail once with a fairly low flex suspension (3.5" off -the-shelf lift springs - ramped in the 600 range) and there were quite a few times where you essentially went into free-fall off some obstacles:
And a few years later ran the same trail in the same rig with a set of Alcan springs in back and some stock rear springs up front (haven't ramp tested it but well over 1000) and off even bigger rocks, the truck would just float back down to the ground, perfectly level and none of that teeter-totter feeling:
In the place above with the old lift springs, my front end did about a 3' drop as it came off that big boulder, and this was creeping along in 224:1 low-low range.
And now I have the orbit-eye ball joints in the rear springs and those are really nice on the trail. You can feel the spring just working smooth even with the axle fully twisted up. The biggest drawback to them is with the additional flex, your tires rub the frame and body a lot worse. Got to put on a wider axle and some wheel spacers to cure that.
And yes, I do have bumpstops on the front and rear springs.
But I have done the Rubicon trail once with a fairly low flex suspension (3.5" off -the-shelf lift springs - ramped in the 600 range) and there were quite a few times where you essentially went into free-fall off some obstacles:
And a few years later ran the same trail in the same rig with a set of Alcan springs in back and some stock rear springs up front (haven't ramp tested it but well over 1000) and off even bigger rocks, the truck would just float back down to the ground, perfectly level and none of that teeter-totter feeling:
In the place above with the old lift springs, my front end did about a 3' drop as it came off that big boulder, and this was creeping along in 224:1 low-low range.
And now I have the orbit-eye ball joints in the rear springs and those are really nice on the trail. You can feel the spring just working smooth even with the axle fully twisted up. The biggest drawback to them is with the additional flex, your tires rub the frame and body a lot worse. Got to put on a wider axle and some wheel spacers to cure that.
And yes, I do have bumpstops on the front and rear springs.
Last edited by 4Crawler; Jul 9, 2008 at 06:20 AM.
Jul 8, 2008 | 09:46 PM
#33
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,906
Likes: 2
From: Woodinville, wa
Should also add in bumpstops (if not already in) that limit the up-travel into the wheel wells thus assisting in that rub. Dont need the up-travel so much but down travel is important.
Last edited by fillsrunner4; Jul 8, 2008 at 09:47 PM.
Jul 18, 2008 | 02:34 PM
#38
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 174
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From: M/V Midland & Biwabik MN
No springs on my rig. Fox 2.0 Nitros. It actually flexes a lot more than that but my Currie Anti-Rock swaybar and limiting straps keep it limited to a reasonable amount. Over 45 MPH with full hydro is SCARRY!
