Mr.Farva

Have a 83 Pickup that was rebuilt (by LCEngineering I think) about a year ago. I have two questions,

#1

My baseline timing is set at 14 degrees of advance at idle, but past idle it jumps all around.

#2

I'm getting alot of blowby. Noticed blue smoke in the passenger side of the cab going up a few hills. The previous owner had installed a catch can on the forward breather on the valve cover. The previous owner mentioned that maybe not all of the holes where drilled on the head gasket?

I'm a newbie, any tricks or solutions for my two issues? Thank you.

gillesdetrail

iTrader: (1)

#1: the timing has to be checked in these circumstances:
-engine hot
-idle between 750 rpms and 950 rpms
-vacuum advance disconected from the distrbutor (plug the lines).
-timing should be set around 5*

If you check your timing with the vacuum lines conected to the distributor it is normal that it reads high and that it jumps around if the revs go up. Does the engine run good and strong for a 22r?

#2 It is possible that when the engine was rebuilt the tolerances were incorrect or maybe the break-in procedure was not done properly and the rings never sat good. What type of oil are you using?

Mr.Farva

Going to cap those lines and recheck timing.


Haven't done an oil change yet, I just bought it a few days ago. What oil would you guys recommend? I'm in colorado 6300ft at base camp.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

First thing you should always do when buying a used vehicle is change the oil. You never know when it was changed last and the dipstick isn't always a true time tester if the oil has been sitting for a while. I got a deal on a used truck down in Atlanta so I flew down to pick it up. First thing I did when I left the lot was head to a Jiffy Lube to have the oil changed before I drove it 800 miles back to Maryland - and that was purchased from a dealer. It was also the first and only time I paid somebody else to change my oil.

Rant over, if you have enough blow by that you need a "catch can" on the breather then you may have a bigger problem than just adjusting a few items. Start by changing that oil. In the past I have used Rotella T5 10W-40 diesel oil to minimize blow by and oil consumption. It works really well. Before I rebuilt my engine I was burning/blowing nearly 2 quarts between fill ups (250-/+ miles) and when I started using the Rotella it dropped down to about a half quart between fill ups. The Rotella won't hurt anything, it just has some cleansing and anti-wear agents and is more burn resistant. Factory calls for 10w-30 in most conditions and 5w-30 in colder condition (likely your winter). I also use good filters on all my vehicles - I never go cheap here. I use Purolator PureOne filters (PL20195 for the 22R).

Considering that you are getting oil out of the front breather, I would make sure that your PCV valve isn't functioning properly. The blow by could be caused by excess crankcase pressure for the PCV valve not properly doing its job.

What carb are you running? And where did the truck come from? If you have a factory carb then you should have a high altitude compensator (HAC) to correct the air/fuel ratio at your elevation in Colorado. The HAC looks like this mounted to the passenger side fender wall:


Without this, you will likely be running rich at your elevation. Are you certain that your exhaust smoke is blue and not black? Do you have a lot of soot in your tail pipe? Does your exhaust smell like raw fuel? If so, then you have a rich condition. If you have a Weber carb then you'll want to get smaller, leaner jets to compensate for the high elevation since Webers are tuned at sea level from the factory. Altitude can be a real buzz kill for carbureted engines. For instance, my truck could run perfectly fine here in Maryland at 30ft above sea level, but if I ever decided to drive it through the Rockies then I likely wouldn't make it very far without at least an adjustment to lean it out.

Mr.Farva

Got it from a guy in a 4x4 club in Aurora, CO. He did alot of mods to it, he removed all of the smog equipment, most of the vacuum lines (there is about 2 now) I has a weber 38, not sure on the exact model.

I can't see any smoke coming out of the exhaust. Only the blue smoke in the passenger side of the cab. The whole exhaust is new except the header. Exhaust smells normal to me.


I checked the plugs, and they are golden brown. Slightly lean even. I have receipts on all the parts he bought including main jet, pilot jet, etc.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

So the smoke isn't exhaust? Have you looked under the hood to see where the smoke is actually coming from? I would be concerned more about my truck being on fire if smoke were coming from somewhere else. You need to provide us with the source of the smoke if you want some more direct answers. Sounds like you may have oil leaking onto a hot surface.

If that engine was rebuilt by LCE then they would have certainly put their name on it somewhere. I'm suspecting that it was rebuilt by somebody else if it doesn't and you may have inherited somebody else's problem. I don't trust other people when it comes to engines. What they think and what they did to the engine isn't always correct. If you aren't very savvy with a wrench under the hood, I would suggest taking the truck to a good REPUTABLE mechanic to give it a look-over. Also, you might want to go over the previous owner's desmogging process. I have complete desmogging thread in my signature below that can walk you through everything that should have been removed and plated off.

Start with a simple blow-by test. Cut out about a 5" square piece of cardboard. Fire up the engine and remove the oil cap. Place the cardboard over the oil filler and see what happens. If it levitates slightly then you should be ok with only a very slight amount of blowby. If it flies off over your head into the neighbor's yard then you have some blow-by issues. You can get an idea of how much blow-by you have by doing this test to a vehicle that is running properly and comparing the results. Remember, no engine has perfectly sealed piston rings so every engine has at least a very little amount of blow-by; thus the PCV valve. But if the PCV valve can't handle the excess blow by then the pressure will try to escape through the breather or the oil filler (when you take the cap off). If you want a true idea of how much blow-by you have then remove the breather filter and plug the bung when you try the test above. Some people also say that you should be able to remove the oil cap and just set it on the oil filler - if the blow-by is too much, it'll blow the oil cap off. I don't like doing this because some oil caps are much heavier that others so it's all relative.

Check your compression as well. If that engine was rebuilt recently then you should be between 142-171 psi on each cylinder per the FSM. Anything lower that 142 would indicate a problem such as worn rings, poor valve seating, improper valve lashing, etc.

You might want to post a bunch of pictures of the engine. There are plenty of us on here that might spot something wrong right away.

Mr.Farva

I'll take better ones soon.

https://i.imgur.com/brMCaQT.jpg

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Ok, so here is what I am noticing... In 1983 the Toyota Pickup came with a 22R engine (duh). The 1975-84 20R/22R engines came with the "rounded" 7-bolt valve covers. The 1985-93 22R/RE/RET engines came with the "squared" 7-bolt valve covers and the 1994-95 22R/RE/RET engines came with the "squared" 9-bolt valve covers. Here are some pictures of each one:

1975-84 "rounded" 7-bolt:


1985-93 "squared" 7-bolt:


1994-95 "squared" 9-bolt:



There are a couple key differences between the three styles. 1) The rounded covers have slightly less rocker clearance than the squared covers thus the issue that some people have with over torquing the valve covers on pre-84 engines resulting in the rockers tapping on the valve cover. 2) The 9 bolt style has two extra bolt holes that you can see on the passenger side of the valve cover for some sort of additional vacuum hose bracket. All other bolt holes are in the same location throughout the variations.

I noticed in the picture that you have a 1994-95 9-bolt valve cover on your engine. This makes me suspect several things:
1) The valve cover is definitely not the original valve cover. It fits and will work perfectly fine so that isn't exactly your problem (I'll comment on a possible issue you may have with it later in this post)
2) If the engine was rebuilt, I doubt that LCE did it because they would not have put the 9-bolt valve cover on there. At the most, they would have used the 7-bolt squared cover simply for the rocker clearance issue.
3) The engine may not be the original engine. It could be a 85+ 22R engine. An easy way to tell would be to inspect the exhaust ports. If they are round then it is a 79-84 engine, if they are pear shaped then it is a 85+ engine. A 85+ head WILL NOT work at all on a 79-84 block due to piston/valve clearance so if it is a 85+ head then you have a 85+ block as well thus indicating an engine swap.
4) If the person who rebuilt the engine used a later valve cover on the engine (which again isn't really a bad thing) it leads me to question what other later parts did they use? Like head bolts - 75-84 heads had a taller deck height than 85+ heads thus requiring longer head bolts. If the builder used 85+ bolts on a 75-84 engine then the bolts will be too short to obtain proper torque specs. The timing chain lengths are also different due to the head and block deck heights so they too are not interchangeable between early and late models. It's not a certainty, but when I see one thing that isn't quite right then I always suspect more. Like I said before, I never trust another person's abilities and knowledge, especially since there a quite a few subtle differences among 22R/22RE engines that can make a HUGE difference. A lot of people, even those with tons of engine building experience, think that they are all the same.

So back to the comment I wanted to address from #1 above. Being that it is not an original valve cover and it is definitely a LCE valve cover, I BELIEVE that the LCE valve covers do not come with the baffle (I believe it is also called a flame arrestor). If it indeed does not come with the baffle then it needed to be swapped over from the old valve cover to the new LCE valve cover. Try to follow me here, there are several problems with this seemingly simple valve cover swap.

First I'll show you some pictures
#1 - Here is the factory valve cover off of my 1983 22R (Cleaned up and painted of course):


#2 - Here is a "squared" style valve cover from a 1985+ 22R/RE/RET:


1) Note the differences in the baffles. Particularly that the earlier baffles were bolted on while the later baffles were riveted on. In order to change or swap the baffles on the later valve cover the rivets would have to be drilled out, the holes tapped and threaded so that you could bolt the baffle back on. Also notice that the baffle is shorter on the earlier covers and the oil filler diverter was integrated into the actual cover. I BELIEVE that it the holes lined up between the two styles so an early baffle could fit on the later cover, you just wouldn't have an oil diverter under the oil filler. If that were the case then the baffle could have been swapped over to your LCE cover if it did not come with the baffle.

2) Toyota used a dual row timing chain setup up until 1982 and single row from 1983 on...supposedly (I rebuilt my 1983 22R and it had a factory dual row timing chain setup so those years seem flaky to me). The oil filler hole is set back farther on the earlier models to accommodate the extra width of the dual row chain. If you have a dual row set up (either factory or a conversion) then the baffle on the later cover would have needed to be trimmed to clear the chain. No biggie, you just wouldn't have an oil diverter.

Here's what happens if you don't trim it:


Here is how LCE recommends trimming it:


3) The baffle does two things. It's a flame arrestor to keep flammable gases vented from the crankcase from igniting and it helps prevent oil from being blown out of the PCV valve and breather. Without it, the vacuum on the PCV valve would slurp up oil being flung around under the valve cover (Even without excess blow by).


So after that short novel, what do I think? I think that the previous owner likely rebuilt the engine or had the engine rebuilt. He then bought a timing cover from LCE to make it look pretty and it either didn't come with the baffle and he installed it without one, or it came with the baffle and he did a dual row conversion (or had a factory dual row set up) and decided to remove the entire baffle instead of just the oil diverter. To compensate for his lack of knowledge he then installed that oil catch can. Being that you aren't putting out blue smoke in your exhaust leads me to believe that you likely don't have excess blow-by. And if you do the blow-by test I mentioned earlier then that may confirm or eliminate the blow-by suspicion. My next step would be to peak down the oil filler and you should see an oil diverter. If you do not then I would HIGHLY suggest yanking that valve cover to see what they did (or didn't do) with that baffle.

See, a picture can tell a lot (something like a thousand words apparently). Other things I noticed in this picture:
-Appears like a fuel pressure regulator over on the passenger side fender wall. That's a plus since it's a necessity for a Weber.
-You've got a 1" bore master cylinder, which makes me assume that there is a rear disc brake swap.
-There is a spade connector on the tach sending plug of your igniter which indicates that a tachometer was wired in or they did an SR5 gauge cluster swap (SR5 clusters have a tachometer). If it was a gauge cluster swap, then you might want to inquire on the actual mileage since the odometers typically don't get reset when the swaps are done. Let me know if you want help finding out if it is a true SR5 or not.
-WTF is that ball valve on the heater hose? I suppose you have to pull over and pop the hood to turn off the heat if it gets too hot in the cab...
-Looks like somebody removed all the emissions wiring when they desmogged it since I don't see any lying around and the wiring harness looks freshly wrapped.
-What's the Speedaire water separator for?


Post some more pics, I could probably tell you some more.

enigmaT120

I like the heater hose ball valve. It's very similar (but more reliable) to what came on my '58 Chevy. I won't put one on my Toyota, though.

Mr.Farva

#1 -Yes it has a holley regulator
#2 -Just drums in back, he just wanted a little more stopping power.
#3 -Stock cluster, just an external tach mounted on top of the dash.
#4 -The 1st owner didn't want the heater core warming the cab up in the summer.
#5 -Yep
#6 -The compressor was converted over to be a on board air compressor. Has a tank mounted under the bed and the hook up is at the back below the tailgate.

More pictures
http://imgur.com/a/u7U0w

These two vacuum lines go to the distributor. One to the carb and the other is capped off.

Mr.Farva

#1 - Just did the 5x5 cardboard on the oil filler cap. It goes flying.

#2 - Is that amount of oil below the cam normal?



#3 - I do have a baffle in the valve cover.



The Valvetrain



More Pictures
https://mrfarva.imgur.com/all/#

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

The valvetrain hardly looks run in. How long ago was it rebuilt? I couldn't have been too far back. The oil in the head looks typical - make sure that the oil galleys are draining properly.

Perhaps the motor wasn't broken in properly. I'd do a quick compression check to see what you have on each cylinder. Also, you need to run both vacuum lines to the distributor for it to function properly (this won't help your blow-by, but it will run better). Just remove that annoying those annoying vacuum hardlines completely - you don't need them anymore since it's desmogged. Then plumb the distributor like this:


Distributor port closest to the head --> Any manifold vacuum port
Distributor port closest to the radiator --> Vacuum port on the carb

I can't really tell you much more until you check the compression. It could be that the rings didn't seat properly, the valves may need to be re-lashed (especially if they haven't be lashed since the rebuild), valve seals could be back (unlikely on a new motor) or the valves may not be seated properly.

Mr.Farva

Previous owner told me about a year ago, with about 35,000 to 40,000 miles. Going to pickup a compression check kit soon.

Mr.Farva

Ran a compression tester today.

Front to back,

Cylinder 1 119psi
Cylinder 2 95psi Spark plug was a little oily
Cylinder 3 121psi
Cylinder 4 119psi

Question #1

Whats the better rings to get from LCE? The hastings or Total Seal?

Question #2

Is the complete gasket set from LCE the one to get? Or are their better ones?

Question #3

Are the head bolts torque to yield?

83 trail rig

with how worn your engine sounds total seal gapless second ring is what you are looking for

Sent from my iPhone using YotaTech

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

1-You can't just buy new rings and expect it to fix eveything. You first must find out what size your pistons are and you should probably have your bore measured to make sure the bore matches the pistons. Whenever I rebuild an engine I take the new pistons and rings to my machinist and he cuts and hones the bores to match my pistons and properly gaps my rings for me.

2-I go with Engnbldr.com gaskets. His complete gasket set is OEM quality, perhaps better, and is much cheaper than LCE. Email Ted and he'll get you rolling in the right direction. You can't order online so you either have to email him for prices and payment or call him.

3-No, they are NOT torque to yield. Torque specs for the head bolts are in the FSM. If you keep having head gasket failure I would make sure you have the correct bolt and in good condition - pre 84 head bolts at not the same length as the 84+ 22R engines. You will get an inaccurate torque reading if you have the wrong bolts.

Mr.Farva

Got around to pulling the motor with help from my brother.

Motor out


Cylinder #2, the lowest compression. Pitted and chunks welded to the cylinder and combustion chamber.



The rest... Less then 25,000 miles from rebuilt. BTW almost none of the bolt where tight. Connecting rod bearings pitted and scared. Still need to pull the crank to check the main bearings. Cylinder walls are scared slightly.






Forgot the picture of the Crank Pully bolt, whoever installed it cross threaded it then pulled it out dump a bottle of red locktight the put it almost all the way on. Was not all the way on. My impact and breaker bar barely got it off.

Looking for a 22r Short Block. Anyone ever get on from RPM Ron's Precision Machine in Utah? Or maybe DAVEZ would sell a short block?

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

i hope you didn't pull the rings out like that - they are supposed to be in one piece. Got some piston detonantion on the #2 piston too. Whoever rebuilt that thing is an idiot!

Mr.Farva

Is the main journal suppose to have a giant grove like this?\


All the main bearings look like this. Pitted, colored, grooved, scraped, etc...



The rod journal all look like this. Cylinder wall are similar but a little worse with some scarring, wall are smooth on the fingernail tho. Not sure if honing would get rid of it or if the block needs to be bored...

Mr.Farva

What crank would be better?

LCE
http://www.lceperformance.com/Street...-p/1013048.htm

Yotashop's OEM?
http://www.yotashop.com/crankshaft-20r-22r-22re/