Tron

I don't think that this is the fourum to be arguing about the whole "tread lightly" issue....

I don't know about you guys but i use 4low when i go off road. and how fast do i go... maybe i'll venture into 3rd gear in 4 low and maybe get up to 15mph.

If your gonna coplain about tread lightly then go yell at the pack of 15 year old kids doing 50 on and off the trails on 4 wheelers and dirt bikes. THEY ARE THE ONES RIPPING APART TRAILS!!!

The only time i kick up a rooster tail of dirt is in a mud whole. you see the kids on dirt bikes doing it all the time!

AxleIke

You have an excellent point 4runnermt, and while its so true, you hit the nail on the head, its very very sad.

The thing is, all we're asking is that folks help us out. Its not like i'm asking someone to sell their truck and buy a hybrid honda, or something, i'm just saying, please stay on the trail.

It must also be understood that we aren't saying that you can NEVER EVER set a tire off of a trail, i mean, there are plenty of places where there are little two tracks that lead back to beautiful camp spots. That is not what we are talking about. Its about the driving off the trail to find an obstacle because you are bored.

Here is the thing. When you have a stock truck, you can go up pretty rough roads, but a little forrest road is going to be pretty fun. If you SAS, put in lockers, and big tires, and yadda yadda, you should understand that the little forrest roads are not going to be fun anymore. You need to realize what your truck is built for and drive it accordingly.

Also, i'm pretty sure they just did UA up in Montana, so don't tell me there is no place except fire roads to wheel.

The same attitude displayed in this thread is the same as we have here in CO, and its closing trails one by one, at a ferocious rate. People make new trails, people destroy their stuff, people leak fluid everywhere, and then there is a huge mess, and everyones like, "oh well, we'll find somewhere else now, it was going to happen anyway..." Nothing changes, they just move on to ruining the next place. It sucks, but its just the way it is.

UBERYOTA

I didn't want this thread to be a debate on tread lightly. I wanted to show some people my cool truck. I realize that I went off the trail into a small stream. I just wanted a few nice pics. I wouldn't have done it if it was a trail that was traveled a lot. This trail is almost never taken. And its only taken by ATVs. So no there won't be more tracks in the stream because almost no one goes up there. And yes offroading is a little different in Montana than other places. I do like to tread lightly when needed. I almost never spin my tires unless I'm about to get stuck, and I love the environment and nature. I love taken pictures of the outdoors and offroading. I realize that we all have different views on the tread lightly thing. I will keep posting pics of awesome trail rides around the beautiful big sky country. I think we all need a nice big

AxleIke

Tron, thats why the Bull bar was invented....for running those punks over.

There is even a system. 5 points for 4wheelers, 10 for dirt bikes, cause they are harder to hit. 100 if you can hit a whole group at a time

UBERYOTA

Whats UA?

AxleIke

Sorry, ultimate adventure, in one of the magazines, i get so many, i forgot which one its in...sorry, check on that tonight.

UBERYOTA

Well I only know of two OHV areas. One is called pipestone and its a good hour and a half away. The other is a sand dune area called radersburg also pretty far away. So for brawling around were we live there isn't anything but fire roads. So we REALLY need an off road park.

Albuquerque Jim

UBER,

I want you to know that I am not just trying to come down on you. I think part of the responsibility of these message boards is to educate people on appropriate off-road behavior.

Prior to Yotatech and wheeling with some very responsible folks on YT I didn't know about Tread Lightly and I am sure I made some mistakes wheelin'. If nothing else, maybe I can help a few other people think about the long-term impact of their actions today.

Keep on wheelin', but please do it responsibly...

4runnermt

quote(Axleike)Also, i'm pretty sure they just did UA up in Montana, so don't tell me there is no place except fire roads to wheel.
I didn't say there weren't any places in the whole state, I said around where I live. MT is a big place with a lot of public property to recreate on. In my area the forest service has been closing off a bunch of places due to abuse.

Sleeper

That would be a great way to create trails to suit everyones need. Get in touch with the right people and possibly a sponser (Similar to the Superlift OHV Park) to create an environment of education and fun. It would be a big undertaking but one where the results could possibly have you wheelin' all day for free.

Andy

Flygtenstein

Treading Lightly is not debatable.

You said you left the trail. That is wrong, always.

You have passed it off as wrong, but acceptable since everything is closed. That too is wrong, always.

Moab has designated trails, I have done most of them, prescribed routes over rocks. You?

Many places in Moab and here in Colorado have been closed by this attitude. I cannot encourage this.

You could have done what you did and just passed it off as being part of the trail. That would be morally wrong but publically right. Instead you left the trail, told us you did and are now being proud of it. Good work.

The Ultimate Adventure was, in part, in Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Wyoming. I was there for part of that too.

Please rethink your actions, trail choices and publications of both. Thanks. Many responsible trail users are depending on you.

Sleeper

Word!

xcmountain80

True! Maybe some of us should sell our non lightly treading rigs and buy hybrid toyotas! I know I'm a responsible driver but my SSR's aren't forgiving to anything that may come in contact with them, maybe I should just run street tires offroad in an effort to tread light enough that I need a winch to unstick me when I get stuck! Good idea? Of course not! Believe me I see more and more trails, land closed to me, my truck, my mountain bike, and my atv's and it really pipsses me off. For instance a local offroading spot which had been around for over 25 years here in FL was closed in the last year due to the land owner getting tired of burnt out cars, and trash! It not the wheelerits the the damn trashy ass bunch that goes out with irresponsibility on the brain and just doesnt give a ˟˟˟˟ about the rest of us. SO we get screwed! The point being peeling off into a creek isnt going to kill the ecosystem any more than a burnt out unrecoverable vehicle with fluids spilling out into the enviro.

Aaron

Aaron

Albuquerque Jim

What??? This isn't a debate over what tires to run or whether or not going off of a designated route into a stream is worse than burning a car.

It is simply to reinforce to all viewers that going off of a designated route into a stream is wrong.

Everyone please read the Tread Lightly guidelines. They are not debatable, they are not to abide by only when someone is looking, they are designed to establish sound environmentally conscious behaviors to abide by when you recreate in the outdoors.

And...for the love of wheelin' if you do ever drive off the designated route into a stream...don't take a freakin' picture of it and post it on the internet. Go pose on a curb in the mall parking lot and take a picture of that.

END OF STORY

xcmountain80

So you didnt bother to answer the question. What if there had been a trail leading off into the stream and across it? I can count many trails Im aware of that have trails cut and they were planned that way to run through streams and rivers. How do we know this is any different? And come to think of it how did all these trails get started in the first place other than forest trails. hmmmm oh yeah mostly from people not treading lightly and moving ahead in a direction they desired. Yes I agree to tread lighty is key and I also agree it is a good idea to warn and make aware the youth and others that arent aware of such ideas and programs as treading lightly. But for the love of someone go about it a different way other than bad dog and then kick the dog or in this case bad uberyota and then kick him for him wanting to share the pics with you guys. not once did anyone ask if this was private land, his land, public land, offroad park, or what? And why buy offroad tires if you cant use em other than driving on the land destroying paved roads.

Aaron

Flygtenstein

Burnt out cars and driving off trail are both objectionable. As you mentioned, both lead to trail closures. We are making some progress.

In Colorado, we have trails that cross and go through streams. They are designated routes. People take great care to limit tire spin, travel slowly and MINIMIZE impact. Greens are trying hard to shut all access, let alone potentially risky stuff like that.

If I am in bed with a woman, I can go off trail at any point, I am driving my own rig. The problem is, when it is not a designated route, she will limit or ban all off road trips when she bans just the off trail trips.

FWIW, here in Colorado, we go wheeling on roads. They are all officially roads and are legal. As such, we rarely use off road as a descriptor to where we are headed.

UBERYOTA

Maybe you guys didn't read my post #23. Or maybe you guys just want to continue debating a subject that is different all around the US. Here in Montana there are a lot of trails were its fine to go off the trail. In fact sometimes to do mountain passes you have to go off the trail. So can we please stop this going nowhere debate. We all have different opinions and different trails that we ride. I won't post any more pics of me just off the trail to avoid this debate in the future. PLEASE no more badgering and pointing fingers it doesn't help the situation. Once again I think we need to stop debating and have a

P.S Toyotas Rule!

UBERYOTA

No its not always wrong. There are lots of places where you can leave the trail all you want. Different parts of the country have different trail systems.

I never said that. Where did you get that idea I don't know. They've only close one trail around here and I had never been on it.

I don't know what your saying here but I don't think its a friendly or educated post. We all ride different trails around the country. Good for you that you've done moab so what.

Thanks?

AxleIke

This site seems to think otherwise.

It may be that you have different rules, thats cool. But the thing that worries me is all the people NOT from montana that have a "who gives a flying f**" attitude. Those are the people i'm going after.

My hope is that all will change their ways. Just because it isn't against the rules in Montana, doesn't mean it isn't still destructive. Look at it like this. It may not have been against the particular rules in your area to drive in the creek, but think about this: You driving into that stream cut into that bank a little bit, and even though its okay, it still caused damage. Then, pretty soon, the damage gets bad enough all over that the greenies start taking notice, and it becomes a big problem in a hurry.

We just want people to change. To us, every little bit of damage caused is just another bullet in the gun the environmental lobby has aimed at our heads. It sucks for us, and it will suck for you eventually. The greens are everywhere.

Oh, and for the guy who made the BS post about mud tires, don't be idiotic. Either make a point worth making or don't post. If the trail crosses a stream, then the trail crosses a stream, that is fine. I drive on trails that go through streams all the time. Its making a NEW trail through a stream that is a problem. Read the thread and try to understand what you are talking about.

xcmountain80

I figured this would come about soon enough. Yes I have read the thread and understand fully what we are discussing. I assume you have read the thread as well and we now on the same page. As far as making a point just because you might not be capable of understanding it isnt my problem. I do however agree with everything you had to say "other than the attack on my point ". I think the issue is when it comes to being an issue is that we are all on the same mission "make certain our trails stay open so that our family and others to come may enjoy it" I understand we all argue back and forth maybe because our different interpretation of whatever rules may be for any given region. I have no problems with my fellow wheelers and im sorry we hijacked our friends thread and turned it into treadlightly free for all. I know we are under the same ideals otherwise we wouldnt be on yota tech.

Aaron