Upper control arm rubbing on 285 MT/R
10-18-2004, 06:19 PM
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Upper control arm rubbing on 285 MT/R
I just finished steve's setup with the following:
Front- ARB/OME N91S Firm
'99 Toyota coils (48131-35400 & 48131-35350)
2" Cornbred spacers
I have 285/75/16 Goodyear MT/R's.
On the first test drive with this setup, I noticed rubbing in turns. I saw how close the inner sidewall of the tires was to the upper control arm and determined that to be the source. I have seen the replacement control arm that is narrower in diameter to clear these bigger tires but I can't afford it right now. Does anyone know if it's safe to grind down enough of the upper control arm to prevent rubbing?
Front- ARB/OME N91S Firm
'99 Toyota coils (48131-35400 & 48131-35350)
2" Cornbred spacers
I have 285/75/16 Goodyear MT/R's.
On the first test drive with this setup, I noticed rubbing in turns. I saw how close the inner sidewall of the tires was to the upper control arm and determined that to be the source. I have seen the replacement control arm that is narrower in diameter to clear these bigger tires but I can't afford it right now. Does anyone know if it's safe to grind down enough of the upper control arm to prevent rubbing?
10-18-2004, 06:20 PM
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i would not grind down the arm, just let the arm grind off a little bit of rubber, or get some differnt size/tread pattern that wont be so agressive and stick out... or get wheels with more offset...
10-18-2004, 06:29 PM
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You "can" shave the arms. Chad Burton did this on his 98 and Mike Brown has it on his 2001. It's OK, there is plenty of metal, you'll start to go through the wall pretty quick so you may have to weld the hole shut.
The best solution like you already know it to get the Inland Trucks arms. Cheap and use the stock ball joint. Cheap and easy to install. Cheap, did you get the cheap part.
Well 400 bucks is not cheap but it's the chapest of the bling bling arms. Try grinding, it's OK. Just weld/fill the slot if it opens up.
Steve
The best solution like you already know it to get the Inland Trucks arms. Cheap and use the stock ball joint. Cheap and easy to install. Cheap, did you get the cheap part.
Well 400 bucks is not cheap but it's the chapest of the bling bling arms. Try grinding, it's OK. Just weld/fill the slot if it opens up.
Steve
10-18-2004, 06:46 PM
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Thanks, yeah I was curious how thick the walls of the sidearm were if i were to grind so that answers another question I forgot to ask.
Now, where the heck do I find $400...
Here's a start!!
I'm selling a 2.5" Daystar lift (perfect condition other than it needs new isolators where the bolt heads recess into the rubber.. i'm calling Daystar to see if i can get some of these, and if so.. they'll be included)
I'll ship them to anyone in U.S. for $150.
Also..
2" Rear Cornbred spacers
$85 shipped!!!
Now, where the heck do I find $400...
Here's a start!!
I'm selling a 2.5" Daystar lift (perfect condition other than it needs new isolators where the bolt heads recess into the rubber.. i'm calling Daystar to see if i can get some of these, and if so.. they'll be included)
I'll ship them to anyone in U.S. for $150.
Also..
2" Rear Cornbred spacers
$85 shipped!!!
10-18-2004, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sschaefer3
Well if you were in Arizona we could easily grind and weld up your stock arms. They would look slick.
50 bucks.
50 bucks.
Can we meet halfway??? hahaha
10-19-2004, 08:37 AM
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Schaefer: Why would he go with those inland ball joint arms for $379 when he can get the Allpoos with 1" uniballs for the $389??? Inland wants$639 for their uniball arms.
Options:
Grind stock arms (free)
Inland ball joint arms for 379
AllPoo uniball arms for 389
Inland uniball arms for 639
Camburg uniball arms for 499
Camburg Caddy long travel for way to much!
Camburg Caddy II long travel for way way to much!
Total Chaos uniball arms for (call dealer for price)
Total Chaos long travel system for (call dealer for price)
or you can get new rims with a more suitable backspacing for your tire selection.
or you can go the mega cheap route and buy a set of wheel spacers. (not suggested)
If I had the $$$, I'd get the AllPoo uniball arms unless I can find the Total Chaos arms for +/- 10%. If so, I'd get the TC arms cause I think AP just copied theirs or Camburgs. Camburg is just too proud of their stuff (and rightfully so!) for me and my budget.
Let us know what you end up doin'.
Happy modin'!
Options:
Grind stock arms (free)
Inland ball joint arms for 379
AllPoo uniball arms for 389
Inland uniball arms for 639
Camburg uniball arms for 499
Camburg Caddy long travel for way to much!
Camburg Caddy II long travel for way way to much!
Total Chaos uniball arms for (call dealer for price)
Total Chaos long travel system for (call dealer for price)
or you can get new rims with a more suitable backspacing for your tire selection.
or you can go the mega cheap route and buy a set of wheel spacers. (not suggested)
If I had the $$$, I'd get the AllPoo uniball arms unless I can find the Total Chaos arms for +/- 10%. If so, I'd get the TC arms cause I think AP just copied theirs or Camburgs. Camburg is just too proud of their stuff (and rightfully so!) for me and my budget.
Let us know what you end up doin'.
Happy modin'!
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10-19-2004, 08:47 AM
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Easy answer. You don't have to mess with the ball joint. Remove it and have a ball that is exposed to the elements.
I went through that with the heims on my spidetrax rear links and I'll stick with the ball and boot of grease. It's not a race car, it's a vehicle I want to drive and mess around with.
Easy install and grease in a boot. I would rework the stock arms.
I went through that with the heims on my spidetrax rear links and I'll stick with the ball and boot of grease. It's not a race car, it's a vehicle I want to drive and mess around with.
Easy install and grease in a boot. I would rework the stock arms.
10-19-2004, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SloPoke
Schaefer: Why would he go with those inland ball joint arms for $379 when he can get the Allpoos with 1" uniballs for the $389??? Inland wants$639 for their uniball arms.
10-19-2004, 02:47 PM
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But aren't they the same dimension as the stock arms, just with thighter clearances??
The only way you'll get more droop with stock length arms is a skinnier (not as big around) spring. If you remove your sway bar, it will droop fat (edited: far not fat) enough that the side of the boot hits one of the coils and ruptures it, oosing grease out with every susp. cycle. The only way I know to prevent this is limiting straps, skinnier coils, longer arms (long travel), or the uniball arms.
Correct me where I went wrong.
The only way you'll get more droop with stock length arms is a skinnier (not as big around) spring. If you remove your sway bar, it will droop fat (edited: far not fat) enough that the side of the boot hits one of the coils and ruptures it, oosing grease out with every susp. cycle. The only way I know to prevent this is limiting straps, skinnier coils, longer arms (long travel), or the uniball arms.
Correct me where I went wrong.
Last edited by SloPoke; 10-19-2004 at 02:54 PM.
10-19-2004, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Albuquerque Jim
It is my understanding that the Inland/ATS stock ball joint arms actually yield more droop as well.
Can't you keep a secret. Yes, just as a Jonny Joint will out do a Heim, a stock ball joint can acutally go way past the retaining washer holding the boot tight.
The exposed rusty ball can't go as far, but if you are talking the full long travel kit that is different. But this guy is not running sand in SoCal.
10-19-2004, 03:58 PM
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Wait a minute!
I was looking into buying camburg a-arms to put on my rig. Are people having trouble with the uniball?
I am in the process of redoing my suspension set-up one step at a time. Just put in new Deaver AAL's last night and waiting for my 1" shackle from Cornfed, removing the fabtech AAL and rear shocks and replacing with bilstein 5100's. Eventually would like to replace the fabtech coilovers with the camburg's.
I just put a set of camburg 2.5" coilovers on my buddy's truck and those things are sick as hell. Put my little fabtech's to shame. And his ride is so buttery smooth.
I was looking into buying camburg a-arms to put on my rig. Are people having trouble with the uniball?
I am in the process of redoing my suspension set-up one step at a time. Just put in new Deaver AAL's last night and waiting for my 1" shackle from Cornfed, removing the fabtech AAL and rear shocks and replacing with bilstein 5100's. Eventually would like to replace the fabtech coilovers with the camburg's.
I just put a set of camburg 2.5" coilovers on my buddy's truck and those things are sick as hell. Put my little fabtech's to shame. And his ride is so buttery smooth.
10-19-2004, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by steelhead
Wait a minute!
Keep your balls clean. Or use a rubber condom and grease = stock ball joint.
In Oregon they have Dunes, you'll do fine.
10-19-2004, 05:07 PM
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When i ran the stock a-arms with 285 MTs, i had rubbing on the upper control arms. i ground down the arms to eliminate the problems and never had any further problems. i have ATS arms now though.
10-19-2004, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ASU4runner
On the first test drive with this setup, I noticed rubbing in turns. I saw how close the inner sidewall of the tires was to the upper control arm and determined that to be the source.
I have 285MTR's and notice rubbing on the A-Arms only by "seeing" that the dirt has been rubbed off the end of the A-Arm -not by feel or sound. Who knows, maybe I'm not that attentive of a driver - but the only time I actually felt and or heard rubbing was from tire hitting frame or tire hitting plastic on inner front fender linings.
So you might check to see if you have blemish on your frame from the tire hitting it at full turn.
Just a thought...
John
10-19-2004, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo_Risin
Are you sure that's the rubbing you're noticing. You say it is "at turns" that you notice it - to me sounds more like the rubbing on the frame wich I think almost everyone has experienced going to 285's
I have 285MTR's and notice rubbing on the A-Arms only by "seeing" that the dirt has been rubbed off the end of the A-Arm -not by feel or sound. Who knows, maybe I'm not that attentive of a driver - but the only time I actually felt and or heard rubbing was from tire hitting frame or tire hitting plastic on inner front fender linings.
So you might check to see if you have blemish on your frame from the tire hitting it at full turn.
Just a thought...
John
I have 285MTR's and notice rubbing on the A-Arms only by "seeing" that the dirt has been rubbed off the end of the A-Arm -not by feel or sound. Who knows, maybe I'm not that attentive of a driver - but the only time I actually felt and or heard rubbing was from tire hitting frame or tire hitting plastic on inner front fender linings.
So you might check to see if you have blemish on your frame from the tire hitting it at full turn.
Just a thought...
John
I do have some rubbing on the frame as well.. but thats only at fully locked turning. The upper control arm does have some area that has been worn off from the tires so i know that it is rubbing.. i can't fit my pinky in b/w it and the tire. The rubbing now occurs even in not fully locked turns.. before it was just when fully locked (on the frame..).
10-19-2004, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by steelhead
I was looking into buying camburg a-arms to put on my rig. Are people having trouble with the uniball?
They are far superior to the stock ball joint, that is prone to failure from damage due to over-extention or the boot leaking grease. Considering that there is no maintnance needed for the uniball, that includes lubrication, since it has a Teflon lining. Then the cost to replace a uniball, if it ever does wear out, is cheaper and easier.
If you want to get an expert opinion, contact Donahoe and ask him which is better, here's a quote from one of his post about the stock length A-arms;
I have the Total Chaos upper arms on our development truck, they do two things for you:
1. They raise the pivot center of the upper arm. This will lower your roll center which is beneficial because when you lift your truck with stock arms your roll center also raises changing handling and tire scrub at the heigher ride height. It’s not a terrible thing but the new arms do make it better. Before the arms I would go over uneven pavement or railroad tracks and you could hear the tires scrubbing in and out, after the arms it was much better
2. The uniball pivot has more angularity. On the stock arm the upper ball joint is the limiting factor for how much down travel you can get. When I designed the Donahoe coilover I gave the shock as much down travel as I could without damaging the stock upper ball joint (about 1” more than stock). After working with Total Chaos I developed another version of our shock to be used exclusively with the Total Chaos arm. It has more down travel to take advantage of the increased angularity that the uniball arm has, giving you an additional 1” of down travel.
The combination yields about 9.5” of travel and handles great!!!!
!!!!NOTE: do not use the Total Chaos version of the Donahoe Racing coilover on stock arms or you will damage your upper Ball joint.
On 4x4's you should also lower the diff !!!!
DYLANDR
1. They raise the pivot center of the upper arm. This will lower your roll center which is beneficial because when you lift your truck with stock arms your roll center also raises changing handling and tire scrub at the heigher ride height. It’s not a terrible thing but the new arms do make it better. Before the arms I would go over uneven pavement or railroad tracks and you could hear the tires scrubbing in and out, after the arms it was much better
2. The uniball pivot has more angularity. On the stock arm the upper ball joint is the limiting factor for how much down travel you can get. When I designed the Donahoe coilover I gave the shock as much down travel as I could without damaging the stock upper ball joint (about 1” more than stock). After working with Total Chaos I developed another version of our shock to be used exclusively with the Total Chaos arm. It has more down travel to take advantage of the increased angularity that the uniball arm has, giving you an additional 1” of down travel.
The combination yields about 9.5” of travel and handles great!!!!
!!!!NOTE: do not use the Total Chaos version of the Donahoe Racing coilover on stock arms or you will damage your upper Ball joint.
On 4x4's you should also lower the diff !!!!
DYLANDR
BTW I'm currently doing a test, just to see how long they will last, without any kind of maintnance, except washing off the dirt with water. It's my DD and I also use it on our jobsite, so it's driven offroad most every day. Oh, did I say I have had ZERO problems with the uniballs and there has been no issues with rust?
10-19-2004, 10:10 PM
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Also, have you got your truck aligned yet? If you have positive camber, this will increase your rubbing. usually when the front end is lifted, it shifts the camber positive. get it aligned to something like -0.3 to -0.5 camber (still within specs) and this should eliminate most of your street rubbing.
10-19-2004, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceTS
As far as I know, nobody has posted about having problems with the UNIBALL and from personal experience; I've been running them for almost a year, considering mine go through a wide variety of conditons mostly at work and they are constantly getting muddy, that plus the fact I work near the ocean so being in the corrosive salty environment would accelerate rusting, none of this has happened, to date they show no signs of any type of wear.
They are far superior to the stock ball joint, that is prone to failure from damage due to over-extention or the boot leaking grease. Considering that there is no maintnance needed for the uniball, that includes lubrication, since it has a Teflon lining. Then the cost to replace a uniball, if it ever does wear out, is cheaper and easier.
If you want to get an expert opinion, contact Donahoe and ask him which is better, here's a quote from one of his post about the stock length A-arms;
BTW I'm currently doing a test, just to see how long they will last, without any kind of maintnance, except washing off the dirt with water. It's my DD and I also use it on our jobsite, so it's driven offroad most every day. Oh, did I say I have had ZERO problems with the uniballs and there has been no issues with rust?
They are far superior to the stock ball joint, that is prone to failure from damage due to over-extention or the boot leaking grease. Considering that there is no maintnance needed for the uniball, that includes lubrication, since it has a Teflon lining. Then the cost to replace a uniball, if it ever does wear out, is cheaper and easier.
If you want to get an expert opinion, contact Donahoe and ask him which is better, here's a quote from one of his post about the stock length A-arms;
BTW I'm currently doing a test, just to see how long they will last, without any kind of maintnance, except washing off the dirt with water. It's my DD and I also use it on our jobsite, so it's driven offroad most every day. Oh, did I say I have had ZERO problems with the uniballs and there has been no issues with rust?
Last edited by steelhead; 10-19-2004 at 10:26 PM.
