CJM

Ok for the life of me I dont understand what a twin stick does?

Does it allow one to engage 2wd hi/4wd or something. No website I can find (inchworm and such) can explain it.

Whats the deal with dual t-cases like marlin?

I hate to sound dumb but cannot understand what they do and how they work and why one would prefer the dual vs twin stick?

mikes19984x4

the whole point of the twin-stick is to allow you tp have options such as having rear-wheel drive, 4-wheel drive, and also front-wheel drive. it also allows you to have 4 hi and 4 low as normal, except most twin-sticks will come with different ratios in them. but the twin-stick will also allow you to have 2-wheel drive in low range. it's pretty awesome what a twin-stick will let you do off-road.

as for the dual-cases, it is basically running the power through two transfer cases to make your crawl ratio even lower, but it doesn't have the options of the twin-stick though.

and most would probably prefer the twin-stick, but the dual case option is cheaper to do. hope this helps ya out...

CJM

The dual case is easier to do? I could swear making new drive shafts, adding another t-case and all that yahoo was $$$ and alot of time..

Elvota

Dual Cases: just like it sounds, two transfer cases "stacked" together end to end. Allows for a lot lower gears, especially if you upgrade one of the cases to a 4.7. For example, my 4Runner has a 217:1 low gear... compare that to the 52:1 gear it came with stock.

Twin Sticks: not 100% clear on this myself, but I believe it lets you run in 2L or 4L with the hubs locked. Basically, twin sticks give you more selective options than a standard setup.

I find myself using just the 4.7 box most of the time. If my hubs are unlocked, then I can run 4.7 2L and with my rear ARB on I can clean a ton of stuff on the trail. I only engage both cases to super low on the most extreme obstacles requiring a lot of torque and very slow speed.

The lower gears also do wonders on descents. It's amazing what degree of pitch you can roll down under full control.

CJM

Ok gotcha now.

Thanks guys..

mikes19984x4

i didn't say easier. it may be cheaper, as i believe most people who do this find a decent used t-case and just swap in lower gears into, and also as twin-sticks like the atlas line of t-cases will costs ya a pretty penny...

CJM

Okay so just to clarify here since I am pretty new to this whole concept:

On inchworms site I would need which kit:

http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/index.php?cPath=21

The double t-case set up and what else do I need? I assume I need gear driven t-cases and wonder what trucks come with them and etc.

Really I am still in the planning stages, but i want to be certain I figure in all costs and such here b/c I want to build it right the first time.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Actually, dual cases gives you almost what a twin stick does. You get a 2L option if you shift the front case into low range and keep the back case in 2H. I find this most useful and that is probably one of the best features of a twin stick (at least on a Toyota t-case). You could also add a twin stick to the rear case in a dual case setup.

Or as I am going to do, is to move the rear case shifters to the front case and then have three sticks there, one for 2-4, one for H-L in the front case and one for H-L in the rear case. Only thing you don't get in a Toyota twin stick setup is independent front/rear wheel drive selection like you do in an Atlas case.

AxleIke

There is a WHOLE TON of missinformation here. Holy Cow.

4crawler, as always, got it right....

Toyota transfer cases have two shift rails. One for 2-4, one for hi-low. On a stock case, you move the right rail forward (engine) to engage 4wd, and the left rail backward (tailgate) to put it in low range. That is why your shifter has an "L" pattern.

Dual cases is NOT AT ALL CHEAPER OR EASIER IN ANY SENSE than twin sticks. a twin stick costs about 200. you can't even buy the adapter to put in dual cases for that much. TG sells one for 299. Then you have a t case (about 100), as well as d-shaft modifications (anywhere from 100-300 per shaft, depending on what you get done). A twin stick is a 1/2 hour modification. If you want lower gears, add another 400.

You can EASILY do twin sticks with a dual case. I'm doing triples. You just put the twin stick on the rear case, and this gives you on-the-fly 2-4 shifting on any gear reduction, which is especially useful for those with auto lockers who need to steer while giving gas after an obstacle.

Lastly, in NO WAY can a toyota transfer case have only front wheel drive without a special rear D-shaft disconnect, like the one sold by FROR. This can be done without twin sticks all day long.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

Here is some info on the benefits of dual cases/Lower transfer case gears i was sent in a PM:
"Crawl ratio with 5.29's
98:1 = single 4.7 case
108:1 = Dual case 2.28x2.28
Very little difference..

with duals you need....
$100 - Second case in good working order
$300-Case adapter
$200-300- dual case X-member/skid plate
$200-300- Drive line modifications (front and rear)
The required work of installing the actual shifter and boot assembly which will also cost you a few pennies.
Total Cost = $800-1000

Single 4.7 case requires...
$349 -4.7 gear set and thats it.

Looking back now I think I would go single 4.7 and spend the rest of the money elsewhere next time. 2 lockers and a 4.7 case would be WAYYYY better than dual cases and no lockers."

I am planning on running a locker up front(eventually) and using a twin stick that will allow me to put the truck into 2WD low with out having the front axle bind up and have the potential for axle bustage. Longfield axles will of course help alleviate some of that but that is another mod down the road...

mikes19984x4

misinformation? my bad if i posted any bad information, but the twin sticks we were talkin about is actual twin-stick transfer cases like the atlas, so i'm 100% sure you can't get an atlas for $200 or install it in only 30 min.

AxleIke

Atlas? The twin sticks we were talking about? The OP said,

while he didn't EXPRESSLY say toyota, it can be inferred from his comment about inchworm that he was talking about toyota. that and about 0.000001% of people on this board who have twin sticks have an Atlas with twin sticks. The VAST majority of people here who have twin sticks have a twin shifter on a toy case. You may have been talking about an Atlas, but in no way was that clear from your post, and his post led directly to the conclusion that he was talking about toyota. You mentioned Atlas in your second post, but you made it seem like you were referring to a completely different option.

No, you cannot get an Atlas for 200 and instal in 1/2 an hour. Nor can you call an atlas a "twin stick conversion". You can call it a "transfer case swap to a case with true twin sticks."

Plus, even though you were referring to an atlas, you made it seem that the atlas had all sorts of advantages that the duals didn't. It costs way more, and the ONLY thing it gives you over duals is the ability to run front wheel drive only. Dual transfer cases with 4.7's in the back case is IDENTICAL to a 4speed Atlas in every way except that it is A) longer than the atlas, and B) can't go into front wheel drive only. You were right that it was cheaper.

crolison

Yep, i would love to run duals, with 4.7 in the rear, but thats not going to happen.

I want to go twin stick, then 4.7 gears in the stock single case.

Elvota

You need to post up which engine/ tranny you are planning on putting all this behind.

I am mostly familiar with Marlin, so...

If 3.0 V6 with a 5spd, you need their adapter to mate a R150 tranny to a 4CYL T-case. You'll also need the adapter that allows you to connect two 4CYL cases together, assuming you want to run dual cases and not just one case with a 4.7... which is a good way to go as well.

You need a "top shift" transfercase. Pic courtesy of Marlin:



Notice how this case has the lever as part of it. Forward shift cases will work but require more parts and more money.

Forward shift case pic courtesy of Marlin:



Notice how the shift rails extend from the T-case to the tranny.

With the HP and torque of the V6, you will want to upgrade the internals of both cases to 23 spline instead of the stock 4CYL 21 spline gears. Assuming you'll spring for the 4.7, just be sure to get that in the 23 spline version. Then you need a new 23 spline 2.28 for the front case.

23 spline 4CYL T-cases from the factory do actually exist, but come off turbo trucks and can be very hard to find. Might as well keep your eye out when you search though.

All this adds up quick. Most are in the $1500 to $2000 range when all is said and done. That price won't include the driveshafts or new crossmember.

If you wheel technical stuff a lot, all the gearing options pay for themselves right away. If you rarely find yourself in heavy rocks, it wouldn't be worth the money. If on a budget, just a 4.7 case would be a huge improvement and would give you money to spend elsewhere... as mentioned above.

Squiddy

I'm just glad someone else asked this set of questions instead of me!

tc

4Crawler and AxleIke have it right.

Twin stick for a Toyota runs about $200 and is a very simple install. It allows you to disconnect the front output, giving you a 2LOW option. IMHO, twinstick gives you a lot of options to get off the trail with front diff issues, as you retain all your gearing options without having to turn the front diff (manual hubs too)

Dual cases runs almost $2000 and is VERY involved install. It allows you to have a low and a double low. Or you can put in a set of lower gears into one of the cases and have Low-Double Low-Uber Low. By putting the front tcase (sometimes called the crawlbox) in low and the rear in high, you have 2LOW.

I have both twinsticks and dual cases with 4.7:1 gears in the front case. So, I have the following options:

2HI
4HI
2LOW (2.28:1)
4LOW (2.28:1)
2DOUBLELOW (4.7:1)
4DOUBLELOW (4.7:1)
2UBERLOW (10.7:1)
4UBERLOW (10.7:1)
That's a lot of options!

Two things to relate from my experience:
- the tcase frequently binds hard in the lower gears and won't shift from 2WD to 4WD
- uberlow is almost ridiculous with 33's and 4.88's. Would be helpful if you were undergeared with big tires though.

Napoleon047

Hey Ike, installing twin sticks on a toy case is no 30 min job. First, you have to pull the t-case and then tear it down to remove the shift interlock pin, otherwise you will have cosmetic twin sticks and not functional ones.

Twin sticks on a toy case gets you 2wd low range and a true neutral.

Other t-cases like Dana 300s, NP205s, Stakk, Atlas, etc, give you a front wheel drive option, which is useful for tight turns.

mikes19984x4

alright, so my bad if i posted any "bad" info. so i'll just leave this thread for you other guys to work on...so later bros...

flyfishexpert

so can I get a twin stick setup for my '98 4Runner? Or is my transfer case chain driven?

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Technically, yes, you can put a twin shift shifter on that case. All you need to do is pull the interlock pin that prevents independent 2-4 and H-L shifting and then put on the twin sticks, one in each shift rail.

Now practically (assuming you want a simple off-the-shelf bolt-on kit), not sure if anyone makes a twin stick kit for your transfer case. Nothing to do with chain or gear driven, it is the shape of the shifter base plate. Problem is Toyota has about as many different t-case shifter bases as they do t-cases. I show 3 different bases on my web page below, and there are more that I don't have information for:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...shtml#Ordering

Have heard of a few folks who have done some grinding on the shift rail gates and have rigged their t-case up for twin-stick style shifting with the existing single shifter. Might be able to find a thread or two over on the Pirate4x4.com forum.