Thermo Tec Insulation?
01-29-2003, 07:36 PM
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Thermo Tec Insulation?
Anyone used this stuff before? I'm looking at it for the ISR mod to keep the intake air temperatures as low as possible. I'm looking at the following:
1) Thermo-Sleeve 14025
2) Thermo-Flex Aluminum 17300
3) Adhesive Backed Heat Barrier 13500
I'm thinking about running a combination of this to shield the intake tubes from the heat of the engine, which would therefore reduce the intake temperatures, which means more power. What do you all think?
Chris
1) Thermo-Sleeve 14025
2) Thermo-Flex Aluminum 17300
3) Adhesive Backed Heat Barrier 13500
I'm thinking about running a combination of this to shield the intake tubes from the heat of the engine, which would therefore reduce the intake temperatures, which means more power. What do you all think?
Chris
01-29-2003, 08:39 PM
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I wrapped my exhaust manifold on my 87 cewlica GTS with the stuff. It seemed to lower the under hood temp, just not sure how much. It was noticeable, via the gauge and the ol' toasty hand method...
01-30-2003, 05:25 AM
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In another post I said that I wrapped an intake system in a custom made (yes, I had an upholstery shop make it) Thermal Tec sock for an intake I was using. It was very effective. I also use it for wrappiing things that are IMO too close to my headers. Summit Racing sells the material in large sheets and in rolls of adhesive backed tape. CAUTION: For those thinking of wrapping headers with it be aware that it will shorten the life of your headers (unless they are stainless) because the tape will incubate moisture and promote rusting of the tubing, even if you have them Jet Hot coated.
Got to <http://www.thermotec.com/tt/> and check out this product.
Got to <http://www.thermotec.com/tt/> and check out this product.
01-30-2003, 07:21 AM
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Chris,
I don't have any pictures of the intake with the wrap on it, but I have a picture of the intake installed. The Thermo-Tec wrap was applied on the "S" shaped part of the tubing before the elbow. I can email you a picture of the intake so you will understand what I am talking about but I would have to do it off list because of the size limits here ... I can't figure out how to reduce the file sizes and still have a big picture to post here. :confused:
The fabrication was tricky because it had to go over an "S" shaped tube instead of a straight section. I bought the material in sheet form. The reason why I never took a picture was because it isn't the prettiest looking thing.
I don't have any pictures of the intake with the wrap on it, but I have a picture of the intake installed. The Thermo-Tec wrap was applied on the "S" shaped part of the tubing before the elbow. I can email you a picture of the intake so you will understand what I am talking about but I would have to do it off list because of the size limits here ... I can't figure out how to reduce the file sizes and still have a big picture to post here. :confused:
The fabrication was tricky because it had to go over an "S" shaped tube instead of a straight section. I bought the material in sheet form. The reason why I never took a picture was because it isn't the prettiest looking thing.
01-30-2003, 11:13 AM
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I used the Thermo Tec stuff to wrap my Turbo and my intake tubing on my Supra. It made a HUGE difference in the underhood temps and allowed me to run a bit more boost without pinging or detonation. I think it's great stuff.
If you powder coat your headers, you won't need to wrap them.
My .02
Dr. Z
If you powder coat your headers, you won't need to wrap them.
My .02
Dr. Z
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01-30-2003, 12:17 PM
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02-01-2003, 05:49 PM
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I found the perfect thing for wrapping the intake tubing on our vehicles. It is made by Thermo-Tec, and I bought mine from a distributor called Speedzone. Here's the information you would need to get it too:
Speedzone 1-800-300-6240
1) Part #: 14500 Air Intake Tube Wrap $46.00
2) Part #: 14002 Thermo-Flex Tape $15.00
The Air Intake Tube Wrap is a new product they came out with to keep the intake air as cool as possible. It will wrap tubing from 2.5" - 4" in diameter, so it would work great for our 4Runners. It uses a lacing system to secure it around the intake tubing. The Thermo-Flex tape is just an added temperature buffer, and really isn't needed, but I'm going to do anyways, because it's pretty cheap, and may drop the temperatures even more.
I'll try to get a hold of a digital camera and take some pictures for everyone to see how it comes out.
Chris
Speedzone 1-800-300-6240
1) Part #: 14500 Air Intake Tube Wrap $46.00
2) Part #: 14002 Thermo-Flex Tape $15.00
The Air Intake Tube Wrap is a new product they came out with to keep the intake air as cool as possible. It will wrap tubing from 2.5" - 4" in diameter, so it would work great for our 4Runners. It uses a lacing system to secure it around the intake tubing. The Thermo-Flex tape is just an added temperature buffer, and really isn't needed, but I'm going to do anyways, because it's pretty cheap, and may drop the temperatures even more.
I'll try to get a hold of a digital camera and take some pictures for everyone to see how it comes out.
Chris
02-02-2003, 03:19 AM
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That is a geat find. It's about time they made a product like that. The tighter the fit around the intake tube, the better the insulation factor. Dah!
PS: I used thin SS clamps at either end to make the seal tight-er. You can use wire ties too ... they're cheaper.
PS: I used thin SS clamps at either end to make the seal tight-er. You can use wire ties too ... they're cheaper.
02-02-2003, 04:45 AM
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Chris,
If you are insulating the FIPK I am inclined to think that it is not really necessary. If you have a metal intake tube then that is what you want to insulate because it absorbs the heat a lot more than the black abs plastic. Don't get me wrong, it can't hurt but it is really over kill. I experimented once with what is called the AIRAID intake. I even built an airbox around it, but I did not insulate it. I got fed up with it and bought the FIPK system. It was a much nicer design and the difference was radical ... I mean radical. We have tested the FIPK systems on a number of cars and have tested the intake volume and temperature. The FIPK systems are at the top of the heap. Stay away from metal tubing if at all possible, or at least insulate it. JM2C
If you are insulating the FIPK I am inclined to think that it is not really necessary. If you have a metal intake tube then that is what you want to insulate because it absorbs the heat a lot more than the black abs plastic. Don't get me wrong, it can't hurt but it is really over kill. I experimented once with what is called the AIRAID intake. I even built an airbox around it, but I did not insulate it. I got fed up with it and bought the FIPK system. It was a much nicer design and the difference was radical ... I mean radical. We have tested the FIPK systems on a number of cars and have tested the intake volume and temperature. The FIPK systems are at the top of the heap. Stay away from metal tubing if at all possible, or at least insulate it. JM2C
02-02-2003, 04:51 AM
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No, I'm taking the FIPK off, and making a custom tub to fit it. It may be metal or plstic, but I would prefer to have plastic of some sort. I'll keep everyone posted
Chris
Chris
02-02-2003, 05:30 AM
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Chris,
I have been researching now for about 3 days with all kinds of plastic extrusion and pultrusion mfg's and have had absolutely no success finding tubing that meets the 2-1/2"ID and 2-5/8" - 2-3/4" OD specifications. One mfg rep even suggested gettting a piece of 2-5/8" solid rod stock and having it drilled out to 2-1/2" ID. It has been suggested here that electrical conduit comes in the appropriate size but I could not get confirmation for that from any of the mfg's and I have not been to the electrical supply store here. I am not thinking optimistically about what I will find there since I have already spoken to these large mfg's and suppliers (McMaster-Carr). I have thought about another possibility and since you have the FIPK on your 4R you have the right to ask.
Call K&N and ask them if they can furnish you with an ABS sleeve to match your system. If they can do that and don't have something in-stock (from another application) they might do a run of 2-1/2" x 5.625" tubes if they can get quantity. We could take a poll of how many would want the piece for a current or future ISR mod. I'll bet we could get at least 100-200 orders. The tube would have to have a flare/buldge near each end for better sealing (see your FIPK tubing) and for those who need a bung in the tube, that is easy enough to do afterward by drilling the appropriate hole and inserting a donut grommet, so a straight tube would suffice. What do you think about that?
I have been researching now for about 3 days with all kinds of plastic extrusion and pultrusion mfg's and have had absolutely no success finding tubing that meets the 2-1/2"ID and 2-5/8" - 2-3/4" OD specifications. One mfg rep even suggested gettting a piece of 2-5/8" solid rod stock and having it drilled out to 2-1/2" ID. It has been suggested here that electrical conduit comes in the appropriate size but I could not get confirmation for that from any of the mfg's and I have not been to the electrical supply store here. I am not thinking optimistically about what I will find there since I have already spoken to these large mfg's and suppliers (McMaster-Carr). I have thought about another possibility and since you have the FIPK on your 4R you have the right to ask.
Call K&N and ask them if they can furnish you with an ABS sleeve to match your system. If they can do that and don't have something in-stock (from another application) they might do a run of 2-1/2" x 5.625" tubes if they can get quantity. We could take a poll of how many would want the piece for a current or future ISR mod. I'll bet we could get at least 100-200 orders. The tube would have to have a flare/buldge near each end for better sealing (see your FIPK tubing) and for those who need a bung in the tube, that is easy enough to do afterward by drilling the appropriate hole and inserting a donut grommet, so a straight tube would suffice. What do you think about that?
02-02-2003, 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by ManyMods
Chris,
I have been researching now for about 3 days with all kinds of plastic extrusion and pultrusion mfg's and have had absolutely no success finding tubing that meets the 2-1/2"ID and 2-5/8" - 2-3/4" OD specifications.
Chris,
I have been researching now for about 3 days with all kinds of plastic extrusion and pultrusion mfg's and have had absolutely no success finding tubing that meets the 2-1/2"ID and 2-5/8" - 2-3/4" OD specifications.
It has been suggested here that electrical conduit comes in the appropriate size but I could not get confirmation for that from any of the mfg's and I have not been to the electrical supply store here.
I have thought about another possibility and since you have the FIPK on your 4R you have the right to ask. Call K&N and ask them if they can furnish you with an ABS sleeve to match your system. If they can do that and don't have something in-stock (from another application) they might do a run of 2-1/2" x 5.625" tubes if they can get quantity. We could take a poll of how many would want the piece for a current or future ISR mod. I'll bet we could get at least 100-200 orders. The tube would have to have a flare/buldge near each end for better sealing (see your FIPK tubing) and for those who need a bung in the tube, that is easy enough to do afterward by drilling the appropriate hole and inserting a donut grommet, so a straight tube would suffice. What do you think about that?
Call K&N and ask them if they can furnish you with an ABS sleeve to match your system. If they can do that and don't have something in-stock (from another application) they might do a run of 2-1/2" x 5.625" tubes if they can get quantity. We could take a poll of how many would want the piece for a current or future ISR mod. I'll bet we could get at least 100-200 orders. The tube would have to have a flare/buldge near each end for better sealing (see your FIPK tubing) and for those who need a bung in the tube, that is easy enough to do afterward by drilling the appropriate hole and inserting a donut grommet, so a straight tube would suffice. What do you think about that?
Chris
02-02-2003, 07:53 AM
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Chris,
I have to run out with my wife to a luncheon date but I will try to absorb what you just said when I get back.
From what I gather, this is similar to mating problems I have had in the past with intake/ TB mismatches. I was able to use rubber plumbing couplers and marine reinforced hose to make the couplings. In one case I had to fit a rubber sleeve inside of a rubber hose to reduce the ID. I used hi-temp cement to fuse one piece to another.
As for a group buy, since this is not what you are looking for and apparently those of you starting to do fuel mods are going to a larger MAF, I don't know how successful the idea is. The process I have used in the past is the reverse of what you are suggesting. I would speak to the Mfg, see if they are willing, see what their minimum requirement would be and then go from there. JM2C
Later ...
I have to run out with my wife to a luncheon date but I will try to absorb what you just said when I get back.
From what I gather, this is similar to mating problems I have had in the past with intake/ TB mismatches. I was able to use rubber plumbing couplers and marine reinforced hose to make the couplings. In one case I had to fit a rubber sleeve inside of a rubber hose to reduce the ID. I used hi-temp cement to fuse one piece to another.
As for a group buy, since this is not what you are looking for and apparently those of you starting to do fuel mods are going to a larger MAF, I don't know how successful the idea is. The process I have used in the past is the reverse of what you are suggesting. I would speak to the Mfg, see if they are willing, see what their minimum requirement would be and then go from there. JM2C
Later ...
02-02-2003, 08:30 AM
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Chris and Peter,
Just so you know, the 4Runner intake tubing geometry is the same from 95-2002 on the 3.4L. The angles and distance from the outlet of the stock MAF to the Throttle Body are the same on those trucks. You can use the tubing that comes on the 99-02 trucks on the pre-99 trucks. In fact, I point this out in my ISR Article.
Once you change the MAF, then yes, you will need different tubing to accomodate that, obviously.
Just wanted to clear that up.
Dr. Z
Just so you know, the 4Runner intake tubing geometry is the same from 95-2002 on the 3.4L. The angles and distance from the outlet of the stock MAF to the Throttle Body are the same on those trucks. You can use the tubing that comes on the 99-02 trucks on the pre-99 trucks. In fact, I point this out in my ISR Article.
Once you change the MAF, then yes, you will need different tubing to accomodate that, obviously.
Just wanted to clear that up.
Dr. Z
02-02-2003, 05:18 PM
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Hey ManyMods,
Please don't take me wrong. I'd be willing to help in any way that I could. If you think the opposite way that I described would be a better route, then I'm all for it. Today, I bought a 3"to3" rubber coupler and 3" PVC tubing to see if it could work. The coupler fit perfectly on the Supra MAF, but my problem is finding a 3"to2.5" coupler for the end going into the throttle body. I also have to have a curve in the tubing, so I'm not sure yet. We'll see what happens. The tubing I bought is 1/8" wall thickness, so the outer diameter is 3.5" and inner diameter is 3", which works almost perfectly with the Supra MAF, because it's inner diameter is 3 1/8". So, I'm going to taper the inner edge of the PVC tubing on the MAf sensor end, so the air doesn't hit that very slight 1/16" edge on PVC. I'm thinking about either heating and bending the 3" tubing, or using a curve coupler. But I've still got to find something that will merge the PVC to the throttle body.
ManyMods, I'm not unwilling to help with your idea. It think it's definitely worth a shot. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't do it, but it just depend for how much, I guess, you know? Let's keep talking!
Chris
Please don't take me wrong. I'd be willing to help in any way that I could. If you think the opposite way that I described would be a better route, then I'm all for it. Today, I bought a 3"to3" rubber coupler and 3" PVC tubing to see if it could work. The coupler fit perfectly on the Supra MAF, but my problem is finding a 3"to2.5" coupler for the end going into the throttle body. I also have to have a curve in the tubing, so I'm not sure yet. We'll see what happens. The tubing I bought is 1/8" wall thickness, so the outer diameter is 3.5" and inner diameter is 3", which works almost perfectly with the Supra MAF, because it's inner diameter is 3 1/8". So, I'm going to taper the inner edge of the PVC tubing on the MAf sensor end, so the air doesn't hit that very slight 1/16" edge on PVC. I'm thinking about either heating and bending the 3" tubing, or using a curve coupler. But I've still got to find something that will merge the PVC to the throttle body.
ManyMods, I'm not unwilling to help with your idea. It think it's definitely worth a shot. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't do it, but it just depend for how much, I guess, you know? Let's keep talking!
Chris
02-03-2003, 03:37 AM
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Chris,
I have read and reread your descriptions of what you are doing and I am sorry but I just cannot totally visualize what it is you are doing. I am at a disadvantage because I do not know how all the Toyota 4R and Taco intakes look. I am _not_ asking anyone to take the bandwidth explaining it to me either.
I read that you are coming off of a 3" maf to a tube of the same size and then needing to reduce the size from 3" down to 2-1/2" going to the TB. I cannot think of what the name of the black rubber coupler is called but there are reduction couplers sold at plumbing supply warehouses and I think at Home Depot or Lowes. I have used them but just can't think of the mfg name right now. You also say you need a bend in the tubing ... too bad. I don't think you can bend the pvc tubing because once it gets hot enough it will start to change its molecular structure, get rubbery and deform. They make 45* couplers but then you may be introducing irregular (step) surfaces into the flow path that will cause turbulance. What I would try if you are looking for less than a 45* angle, and I am just thinking outloud, is to take two pieces of the pcv, cut them to the angle you need and then butt them together and find a epoxy cement that will work for the engine conditions you are exposing it to.
As for the idea of getting a tube made by K&N; if you are not in need of the tube personally, I don't think you should have to take on the responsibility for getting it done. I am sure you have enough on your plate ... so don't worry about it. Doing these projects is a real PITA. I did a Google search looking for flexible rubber reduction couplers but could not find the mfg of the one I used. My car that has it is in a storage warehouse and I won't be visiting it any time soon.
Again, I am sorry if I am not understanding the design requirements you are seeking.
I have read and reread your descriptions of what you are doing and I am sorry but I just cannot totally visualize what it is you are doing. I am at a disadvantage because I do not know how all the Toyota 4R and Taco intakes look. I am _not_ asking anyone to take the bandwidth explaining it to me either.
I read that you are coming off of a 3" maf to a tube of the same size and then needing to reduce the size from 3" down to 2-1/2" going to the TB. I cannot think of what the name of the black rubber coupler is called but there are reduction couplers sold at plumbing supply warehouses and I think at Home Depot or Lowes. I have used them but just can't think of the mfg name right now. You also say you need a bend in the tubing ... too bad. I don't think you can bend the pvc tubing because once it gets hot enough it will start to change its molecular structure, get rubbery and deform. They make 45* couplers but then you may be introducing irregular (step) surfaces into the flow path that will cause turbulance. What I would try if you are looking for less than a 45* angle, and I am just thinking outloud, is to take two pieces of the pcv, cut them to the angle you need and then butt them together and find a epoxy cement that will work for the engine conditions you are exposing it to.
As for the idea of getting a tube made by K&N; if you are not in need of the tube personally, I don't think you should have to take on the responsibility for getting it done. I am sure you have enough on your plate ... so don't worry about it. Doing these projects is a real PITA. I did a Google search looking for flexible rubber reduction couplers but could not find the mfg of the one I used. My car that has it is in a storage warehouse and I won't be visiting it any time soon.
Again, I am sorry if I am not understanding the design requirements you are seeking.
02-03-2003, 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by ManyMods
Chris,
I read that you are coming off of a 3" maf to a tube of the same size and then needing to reduce the size from 3" down to 2-1/2" going to the TB. I cannot think of what the name of the black rubber coupler is called but there are reduction couplers sold at plumbing supply warehouses and I think at Home Depot or Lowes. I have used them but just can't think of the mfg name right now.
Chris,
I read that you are coming off of a 3" maf to a tube of the same size and then needing to reduce the size from 3" down to 2-1/2" going to the TB. I cannot think of what the name of the black rubber coupler is called but there are reduction couplers sold at plumbing supply warehouses and I think at Home Depot or Lowes. I have used them but just can't think of the mfg name right now.
You also say you need a bend in the tubing ... too bad. I don't think you can bend the pvc tubing because once it gets hot enough it will start to change its molecular structure, get rubbery and deform.
They make 45* couplers but then you may be introducing irregular (step) surfaces into the flow path that will cause turbulance. What I would try if you are looking for less than a 45* angle, and I am just thinking outloud, is to take two pieces of the pcv, cut them to the angle you need and then butt them together and find a epoxy cement that will work for the engine conditions you are exposing it to.
As for the idea of getting a tube made by K&N; if you are not in need of the tube personally, I don't think you should have to take on the responsibility for getting it done. I am sure you have enough on your plate ... so don't worry about it. Doing these projects is a real PITA. I did a Google search looking for flexible rubber reduction couplers but could not find the mfg of the one I used. My car that has it is in a storage warehouse and I won't be visiting it any time soon.
Thanks,
Chris
